A square roll crimp.

[toot]

I see on an antique reloading site, an antique hand operated square roll crimper. what is it & just how does it make a square roll crimp on a hull? I am 78++ yrs old and never seen a square roll crimp.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Me neither! Maybe we'll learn something here.

DG

[super6]

Yea, I think they called it dimpling just my 2 cents worth.

[17nut]

A normal roll crimp has a (multiple) roll pin at the top of the crimper.
This will aid the (paper hulls) to form a decent roll crimp that can be steaightened and reused.
Money was tight back then.

This might be a last ditch tool when paper hulls got to loose at the top, and it simply was square at the top and made a heafty fold for the final crimp?

[toot]

super6, OK, what is dimpling?

[toot]

some of the old hand roll crimpers say that they will do both roll & square crimping. advertised in the old BANNERMANS & OLD SEARS CATALOGUES. I would like to see a photo of the finished product. the shell? the ones on antique reloading sites look just like a standard roll crimper does not show the inside of the roll head, witch is round. I guess that we are supposed to know what the difference is?.

[harkom]

BGI made a hand RTO tool as per your post. The RTO head was reversible - one side for flat and one for round edge RTO. The pins contained in the head have a flat edge to contact the hull mouth - for flat edge finish ; those for a round edge have a concave contour to make the round edge. I cannot answer your query regarding the benefit of flat versus round although the former may have been used to give a tighter turnover in reloading used hulls.

[toot]

harkom, thanks so very much for the come back to my question on the two crimps. so I guess that the flat RTO head is the one for the square crimp? I would very much like to see the end result of the flat / square crimp. maybe there is some one who will post some? it seems that back in the day that BGI, made the majority of black powder reloading tools, in BRIDGEPORT, CONN. toot.

[KCSO]

For me the square crimp works better with a short turn over and the round when I have more room in the case and can lever more to roll over. Both work ok and don't seem to shoot any different. I shoot a lot of 2 1/2 inch shells and a lot of Black powder reloads.
Most of my crimping is done with old tools that came from my grandfather and have way over 100 years of use. Brass cases are loaded with an old Bridgport set from about 1890.

[toot]

yes BGI, black powder reloading tools for shotgun HULLS BOTH PAPER & BRASS RULLED BACK IN THE DAY! cheep then not now!!

[toot]

so the square crimp is basically a flat crimp, with no indentation on the end of the hull, and a shallow crimp that does no have a roll to it. and a roll crimp is sunken in at the end? I would rely like to see a photo of them.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve got roll crimper’s for the 8 , 10 , 12 and 16 gauges . All Mount in a drill/drill press . Anyway I started with the 8 gauge and nice new Remington black industrial hulls . And in my exuberance I made the crimp somewhat squared . It wasn’t my intention by any means and once I started putting a tiny dot of white lubricant on the very edge of the hull and noticed being ham handed the square went away and a nice rounded top started .

[toot]

6pt-sika, so you are saying that very little pressure being applied will cause a square crimp? I would still like to see a square crimp. a picture is worth a thousand words. and a lot easier to understand.

[6pt-sika]

No when I squared the top I was doing several things in correctly including to much pressure . They worked fine just didn’t look the way I prefer .

[toot]

so there is no problem with them feeding?

[6pt-sika]

so there is no problem with them feeding?

In a SxS there isn’t .

[toot]

OK! I understand, in a DBL or SINGLE good to go.

[6pt-sika]

OK! I understand, in a DBL or SINGLE good to go.

Only ones I’ve ever accidentally squared the tops were all 8 gauge . I know of no 8 gauge guns other than doubles or singles .

[W.R.Buchanan]

Is this what you are talking about? All these were done with a BPI Roll Crimping Tool, which leaves a flat top edge as opposed to a nice rolled edge on both the outside of the Crimp and top edge as well.

In the pic of the Orange and Clear Rio Hulls I took one of both the Brenneke, and Lightfield slugs apart to see what was inside. When I put them back together with new Rio Hulls I used the BPI tool to Roll Crimp them both. Lightfield and Brenneke used a Roll Crimper that leaves a radiused edge on the finished hulls. You can see the difference side by side here. It is most obvious on the Orange Lightfield rounds. Click on the pic to blow it up!

Randy

[harkom]

I think that the flat edge RTO would have been applied to reloading used paper case hulls to give a stronger closure. The paper at the case mouth tends to delaminate as well as getting weakened as a result of firing, hence the difficulty in reforming a tight RTO closure.