What am I looking for in Cast Powders

[Wolfdog91]

Ok so I got another question. When looking at powders for the purpose of using them for cast. What exactly am I look for as far as wanted characteristics ? I know I know published data is the safest but the problem is well I just don't have that option alot of the time currently. I don't have a stock pile of 20 different powder like most of y'all do ,I don't have anyone locally to trade with to get what I want and I'm more less stuff with what ever pops up for sale ever two weeks or so. Been seeing lots of the ramshot powders on but very few if any IMR or Hodogen no pull down powder either.
So that being said IN GENERAL what am I looking for in a power I wanna use with cast ? Somthing that's gonna fill the case good ? Low on the burn chart ? High on the burn chart ? Like wants a good check list of things ? Like if I walk in the gun store see a few different rifle powers what should I look up about them to see if they would be good candidates? Other then somone already using them of course .Or since I'm powder coating and gas checking do I not need to be as careful then if I was using uncoated plain based ? Should case fill be one of my main worries or is there's someone more important?
And no I'm not planning on just picking random powders filling cases till they look good or where its the same as jacketed data and blowing my face off not what I'm trying to do in the slightest

[dondiego]

Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 have always been the most useful to me but you are going to have to get what ever is available to you at this point. I have been experimenting with BE-86 lately and like it. Some guys use the real slow powders and just fill the case and report good results with cast. I believe that most any powder has some use. Good luck finding what you need.
What kind of snake are you holding?

[PopcornSutton]

Wolf, I have been down this road. I shoot rifle cast benchrest, so pistol stuff doesn't apply. When I started, I scanned every match results on the CBA website. Now I realize these aren't the most accurate figures, but it gives you an idea. I tried them all, every powder listed in benchrest shoots I had, and I had them all. So before I go further, you shoud do as much of your own testing as you can. I know in today's world, it aint easy.
In cast, the full case thing doesn't always work. I shoot 30 caliber and around the 200 grain range bullet, plus and minus some. I will list a few powders that have worked for me, and what I look for. I tried Varget, N135, IMR8208, H4895. In my opinion they do not burn clean an efficiently, leaving soot down the case neck, which tells me it is not burning properly. Moving to H322, H4198, RL10 range, has shown complete burning, not soot, enough pressure to seal the case in the chamber at ignition, and better accuracy. Work your load with seating depth and powder charge, things may change for the better. This gives around 1900-2000 fps velocity. Work your load up and down and let your gun tell you what it likes.

[Winger Ed.]

I do a couple things.

1. Research, read up around here, take notes of what these guys are doing, and what works for the cartridge you're working on.

2. Go through your notes, and the books. Then make a list in order of what you want, and keep it in your pocket.

When you come across any powder on the shelf, you'll know if you want it, or what 1st, 2nd, 3rd., etc. choice is.
Then you won't have to wonder if you can use what's there----
Or if you will be shopping for a gun and mold that will take it.

I was in the gun store awhile back and saw several pounds of Green Dot.
I don't normally use it, but they had plenty at a good price, and I knew I'd seen it listed for some cals. I load.
I went home double checked, and yeah, there listings for it in 9mm. So I went back and got a couple.
That was early this summer, and I hadn't seen it or anything else I'd want since.

I'd be looking for powders that have good results with accuracy.
As far as filling the case, or being dirty-- I'd adapt my process to them.
Sort of like steel toed work boots: They break you in more so than you breaking them in.

[Cast_outlaw]

As said above unique and 2400 are fantastic powers especially unique as it can be used in many cartridges with reasonable accuracy and velocity, I’ve found fast burning pistol powders work well for light projectiles and mouse fart loads. I found midrange pistol powders are useful for if you want to shoot normal weight projectiles and some rifle powers work to at moderate velocity.

[dverna]

IIRC, you are currently shooting cast in an AR. Yesterday you posted about 500 yards with the .30/06.

I doubt the same type of powder will be ideal for both. So it will help if you define your needs and objectives.

On the other thread, a gentlemen mentioned “The Load”. 13 gr of Red Dot (Promo is the same but cheaper) and if you read about it, it an excellent starting point for .30 cal cast up to 200 yards...maybe further. It is economical, and does not need a filler. If I was going down the cast rabbit hole in a .308 or .30/06 etc, that would be first stab. Unique would be another decent choice. But for me, 200 yards is as far as I can shoot on my range. If I wanted to get to 500 yards, I would start with Varget or 4064 in my .308.

You see my point?

BTW, I am one of those guys with 27 powders (last time I did an inventory) and I regret it. It is easy to chase the “optimum” load for every caliber and bullet. If that is how you are wired, you will end up at that place. Not saying it is a bad place...but that is how the story ends.

Anyway...let us know what your objectives are...calibers....ranges...bullets. Lots of folks here that can help with experience.

[sigep1764]

As a rule for me in general, I try to look for slowing burning powders for pistol like Red Dot/Promo/Unique. I do use W231 in 380ACP, it meters better at smaller charges. For slower rifle loads, Red Dot/Promo. Faster rifle loads, W748 and 3031. They can be safely downloaded, along with 4895, to something like 70% of max and still be safe. So for me, slower burning powders that can be loaded down. This provides me with the best opportunity to blend a little more speed and not exceed my RPM limit. A bonus is the powders tend to load more rounds.

[Mk42gunner]

Kind of depends on what caliber you are loading, and what you want to do with it. Check this article out, lots of good info: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...Rifles-Article

I will say that for handguns, most of my needs are met by the normal powders, i.e. Bullseye, 231, 2400 etc.

For rifles, it can be a different story. For most of the "full sized rifle cartridges" I generally use 2400 or Red Dot. For lever action Brush gun type rounds, something in the range of 2400 to 3031 or H335 seems to work.

Keep in mind, I mainly plink or shoot paper at under 200 yards.

Robert

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

There is no good way to answer your question, IMHO.

with that said... Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique, Titegroup, Reloder 7, H110, SR4759, H4895, IMR3031 ...are the powders I reach for first, when loading cast in the cartridges I load for.

[Texas by God]

For my 30-30 and 30-40, I’ll use any powder that will reach 2000 FPS with 120 to 180 gr bullets safely and work from there for my hunting loads. I’ve been using some non traditional powders and old standbys as well. My other cast rifles run on Shotgun and handgun powders, mostly.

[Wolfdog91]

Mmmm think y'all are kinda missing what I'm saying. Yes bullseye ,red dots unique Varget 4064 are all good powders that are proven. Again what if I simply cannot find these powders. I love Varget but I haven't been able to find it in close to two years ,same with 4064 and honestly most of the powders y'all have mentioned. Can't find them don't have them so the the whole "just go get you some blanky blank " just plain isn't applicable to me right now. Trust me I've been of a few email notifications for various powders and components and it's just not happening.

What I'm interested in is figuring out if a powder would be usable due to it's characteristics in relation to what cast bullets require compare to jacketed.
For instance I haven't seen any of the powders eveyone keeps telling me to just grab and use. How ever I've noticed stuff like TAC , x-terminator , the western brand powders along with accurate. What would I be looking for to go "hay this would be a decent or cast " like what does a cast bullet need from a powder that you just don't need to worry about in jacketed.
As much as I'd like to just buys what everyone reccomended it's just not feasible right now

[Wolfdog91]

IIRC, you are currently shooting cast in an AR. Yesterday you posted about 500 yards with the .30/06.

I doubt the same type of powder will be ideal for both. So it will help if you define your needs and objectives.

On the other thread, a gentlemen mentioned “The Load”. 13 gr of Red Dot (Promo is the same but cheaper) and if you read about it, it an excellent starting point for .30 cal cast up to 200 yards...maybe further. It is economical, and does not need a filler. If I was going down the cast rabbit hole in a .308 or .30/06 etc, that would be first stab. Unique would be another decent choice. But for me, 200 yards is as far as I can shoot on my range. If I wanted to get to 500 yards, I would start with Varget or 4064 in my .308.

You see my point?

BTW, I am one of those guys with 27 powders (last time I did an inventory) and I regret it. It is easy to chase the “optimum” load for every caliber and bullet. If that is how you are wired, you will end up at that place. Not saying it is a bad place...but that is how the story ends.

Anyway...let us know what your objectives are...calibers....ranges...bullets. Lots of folks here that can help with experience.

Well again I'm trying to get to the nitty gritty of want I need a powder to do. It's like why does unique work so well in cast ? Well it's because of these things ? O ok so this power has alot of the same things going on so this would be a decent candidate to play with. See what I mean ?
I bought the powders I'm using in my AR off of reccomedations from YouTube but that was back when I could just find what I want . This i all kinda outta necessity rn

[Hick]

Another take on your question is the 'rocket' versus the 'firecracker' What I mean is this:

1. You can get good results with many cast bullets using fast powder (basically, shotgun or pistol powder). These will be small amounts of very fast powder in a large case. I call these 'firecrackers' because the powder all burns pretty much immediately. The Lyman Cast Bullet handbook has lots of loads for almost every firearm for fast powders. I use things like Titegroup, 700x, HP-38, W231 for firecracker loads all the way from 223 Rem to 30-06. The firecrackers usually have upper limits on velocity, but you can usually take them all the way down to subsonic with good accuracy.

2. You can also get good results with nearly full cases of slower powder. These burn from the bottom of the case toward the mouth-- like a solid fueled rocket. These will deliver higher velocities, up to the limits on lead boolits, but sometimes require a filler. These slower powders, however, usually cannot be downloaded for lower velocities-- because you need to keep the case full enough to avoid the powder all going up at once.

So-- you need to think about the velocity range you are looking for and select accordingly.

[Wolfdog91]

Another take on your question is the 'rocket' versus the 'firecracker' What I mean is this:

1. You can get good results with many cast bullets using fast powder (basically, shotgun or pistol powder). These will be small amounts of very fast powder in a large case. I call these 'firecrackers' because the powder all burns pretty much immediately. The Lyman Cast Bullet handbook has lots of loads for almost every firearm for fast powders. I use things like Titegroup, 700x, HP-38, W231 for firecracker loads all the way from 223 Rem to 30-06. The firecrackers usually have upper limits on velocity, but you can usually take them all the way down to subsonic with good accuracy.

2. You can also get good results with nearly full cases of slower powder. These burn from the bottom of the case toward the mouth-- like a solid fueled rocket. These will deliver higher velocities, up to the limits on lead boolits, but sometimes require a filler. These slower powders, however, usually cannot be downloaded for lower velocities-- because you need to keep the case full enough to avoid the powder all going up at once.

So-- you need to think about the velocity range you are looking for and select accordingly.

Ah ! Now thats what I'm talking about !

[Rainier]

Here’s a couple of links that might help…

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1009122680?pid=248462

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2183830234?pid=912025

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/winchester-231/

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/accurate-5/

[The Dar]

Wolfdog,

Do you have the forth edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook? I have read many of your posts but can't remember if you said you had one. You should definitely invest in one if you don't have it. I don't load for the 30-06 in cast, but I do load 308. I've had good luck with Alliant Reloder 7 and IMR 4227. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Dar

[beagle]

Wolf, when I started loading back about 1958, I was darn near penniless. After much searching, I settled on Unique as the one powder that I could load .30/06 cast, .45 ACP cast, .38 cast and 12 gauge shotgun shells. Maybe not the best choice for all calibers but at least I'd have something to shoot. It served me well over the years until I started working and had a better paying job and could afford powder and afford to branch out a little. Since those days, my bench hasn't ever been without at least a pound of Unique./beagle

[Wilderness]

Ah ! Now thats what I'm talking about !

Wolf - I'll endorse and add to what Hick says. For those slower powders, the ones that come close to filling the case but give suitably reduced pressures and velocities, the key question to ask is how well they ignite and burn at these lower pressures. Some powders tolerate down loading while others of supposedly similar burning rate do not. This information is not shouted from the rooftops, though Hodgdon does say that H4895 (we call it 2206H) will tolerate reduced loads. There will be others. Reloder 7 springs to mind.

My experience is with 175 gn cast in .30-30 at 1950 fps (silhouette rams) and 2200 fps (real pigs). If the load is too light or the powder wrong it will show up as velocity variation (SD 30 to 100 fps, versus 20 or less), and as vertical stringing on the target (2" displacement per 100 fps at 50 meters for .30-30). A few shots may be enough to reveal this failing. The vertical dispersion is a consequence of the velocity variation, not a symptom in its own right, and might not manifest in a bolt action. LeverEvolution is fine at 2200 fps but a problem below that. Varget is best at full throttle (2150), and OK though not as good at 1950. H4895 is OK, and possibly a little better than Varget, at 1950.

Bottom line for rifle powders: How does the powder handle down loading?

[414gates]

For handgun calibers, stick to flake powder, not ball, with a medium burn rate like Unique.

For rifle calibers, you can reduce the load safely with any powder only if you take up the remaining air in the case with dacron. Around 2 grains weight of dacron is enough to fill an empty 308 case, so it doesn't take much.

If you don't use dacron, then do whatever the published load guide tells you.

[405grain]

Wolfdog91: I'm going to throw this out there as an FYI. In the latest Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook the author makes note of how 5744 is his favorite powder. He states that he has a big reserve of it, and has been shooting from that same batch for years. Most of the calibers in the Lyman Handbook list 5744 as their most accurate powder. There are a couple of problems with this, and it's not just that AA5744 is more expensive than most other powders. The powder that the author is using is an older formula called D060, which was made by Lovex in Czechoslovakia and marketed here in America as 5744. Accurate Arms 5744 is a different formulation and doesn't burn as clean.

Shooters World Buffalo Rifle is D060. It is made by Lovex and is that older formulation that is recommended in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Not only is Shooters World Buffalo a very good cast bullet powder, it usually costs less than Hodgdon or IMR powders. (Also, Shooters World Precision Rifle is very close to Varget, but at a lower price) I do have over a dozen different powders on hand, but lately I've been trying Buffalo Rifle with good results in 30 caliber rifles. Keep an eye out for it, and if you can get some I recommend it. Also, if you haven't already got a copy you should get the Fourth Edition of the Cast Bullet Handbook (or download a pdf of the third edition off the web)