Black Powder Gun, Smokeless Powder?

[Gadzooks Mike]

I know that guns need to be de-petroled and set up with organic grease to shoot black powder, or you end up with a tarry mess. Now I've got a nice double-barrel shotgun all set up for black powder shells and it works great, cleans easily, etc. Now what sort of a mess would I be looking at if I shot a few (5 or 6) smokeless shells through it?

[SharpsShooter]

No harm at all provided the scattergun is proofed for smokeless and not Damascus steel.

SS

[elk hunter]

Mike,

If your asking if you can safely shoot smokeless loads in your shotgun the answer is, it depends on the design, strength and condition of your shotgun, and the loads you intend to shoot.

I shoot several older shotguns that were made when black powder ruled, but only with special loads loaded to give less or pressure no greater than that generated by black powder loads. Modern shotshells can and generally do generate pressures that are far higher than older shotguns were intended to operate at.

The average American gunsmith will advise against shooting any old black powder era shotgun especially those with damascus barrels. The average English gunsmith would likely send your gun in for proof testing and if it passed would sell you the proper loads.

[Gadzooks Mike]

No guys, it's a modern shotgun. I'm talking about black powder, smokeless powder, petroleum lube and non-petroleum lube. Guess I wasn't clear in my question.

Black powder + petroleum lube = messy tar
Black powder + non-petroeum lube = easy clean-up
Smokeless powder + petroleum lube = easy clean-up
Smokeless powder + non-petroleum lube = ???

[elk hunter]

Mike,

Sorry, I'm still not clear about what you're asking. Where and why are you using lube in a shotgun? If it's only on the hinge pin it doesn't matter what type of powder you're using. If you're using lube in some other fashion you will need to clarify what you're doing/asking.

[218bee]

unclear on the lube also...do you mean oil in barrel from storage after you shoot? Before you shoot either black or smokeless clean barrel with Hoppes or such and shoot it dry with either bp or smokeless. I shoot bp shotshells in a couple clunkers and never had any issues. I use fiber or cork wads over powder...I heard plastic wads tend to melt into a spaghetti looking thing after a while

oh by the way...after shooting with BP make sure to clean the barrel with water and soap or Windex or something and then give light coat of oil before ya put it away

[northmn]

You need different data whcih is available from old manuals to shoot smokeless with card and fiber wads. some wads are sold with a wax saturation that offers some lube. SPG for instance works fine with both smokeless and BP as does Lyman Gold or some of the homemades in cartridges. Lubes in BP cartridges are designed to keep the fouling soft, but in a shotgun are less important than in a rifle as the previous crud gets pushed out more with the card wads. I just use card wads in a BPC shotgun or a slight amount of lube on a fiber wad.

Northmn

[Gadzooks Mike]

I'm using Bore Butter in the shotgun I use for BP shells, and CLP in my other shotgun that use for smokeless rounds. I mistakenly called this "lube" in the barrel, while in fact it's - oh , I don't know. Stuff. Petroleum and non-petroleum stuff. I use that after I clean any gun, generally. Keeps the rust down. Clean out the barrel, then send through a patch of "stuff" and put it back in the gun cabinet. I used to call that "lube" but now I'll just call it "stuff". But with this shotgun, I use Bore Butter. It's a non-petrol product made especially for black powder shooting. If you use petrol stuff and then shoot black powder, you get a real mess of tar--light substance. If you stick with Bore Butter (or similar product), you don't get that mess. Then when you clean it out with soapy water or Windex, it's pretty easy to do.

oh by the way...after shooting with BP make sure to clean the barrel with water and soap or Windex or something and then give light coat of oil before ya put it away

"light coat of oil"...yeah...not lube. Stuff. Now, if that "oil" stuff is Bore Butter and then I shoot some smokeless rounds, ... ah... never mind. I'll go do it and find out.

Anyway, thanks for all of your replies and sorry for my poor use of English. Didn't mean to confuse anyone.

[NickSS]

You will not have a problem either way. I do not shoot a lot of shotgun but I do shoot a lot of rifles loaded with black powder and smokeless powder. Rifles that I do this with are usually loaded with BP but occasionally I get lazy and load some ammo up with smokeless for practice. I generally use the same lube on my bullets this being home made BP lube that works well either way. As for cleaning my guns I always coat the bore with a light film of CLP when I am done cleaning it. Before going to the range I run a dry patch through it and am ready to go. No tar and no problems in over 45 years of doing it this way.

[Gadzooks Mike]

Thanks, NickSS. That's exactly the info I wanted to know.

[August]

I've recently done that. I took one of my cowboy gunz to a skeet match and fired a couple of rounds. Then, without cleaning it, I shot a cowboy match FC (Goex, of course).

The gun was very difficult to clean -- in the sense that the burned on plastic from shooting smokeless rounds stuck to the barrel like glue. IT DOES THIS ALSO WHEN JUST SHOOTING SMOKELESS.

In other words, cleaning a gun that has only been shot with black powder is many times easier than shooting one that has been shot with smokeless.

It took me three hours to finally get all that plastic **** out of my citori the other day. I never have that problem with black powder and I use plastic wads exclusively with black, just like I do with smokeless.

Black powder has enough ju-ju to neutralize the evil effects of plastic shotshell wads.

[Oyeboten]

As far as I have seen in some limited experiments in Metallic Cartridge, Smokeless Powders should get alone splendidly with any 'good' Black Powder type Bullet Lubes.


But 'good' I mean, Bees Wax Based, with secondary quantities of Olive Oil, Carnuba...


For my applications, which I imagine would be fine also for Shot Gun, I make quite thin 'Wafers' by passing strips of Paper Towel through the molten Bees Wax Olice Oil mix, let cool, cut Wafers with a Hole Punch over any sort of endgrain of like a 2x4 or other.

These then go betwen Bullet and Powder, which for Shotgun, would be very easy.

For Metallic Cartridge BP, very easy.

For Metallic Cartridge Smokelss, where one usually has some Air Gap, the Wafer needs to be melded by Heat, to adhere securely to the Base of the Bullet...or, one merely uses the Lube for the Bullet Grooves or sides if 'waffled'.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Shoot away... I use 45-55 olive oil - bees wax lube in my BP loads in my Mossy 12 guage and have seen no problems shooting any amount of smokeless loads mixed in.

[cajun shooter]

I shoot at one range in SASS matches that have some mean KD"s. I use the STS or Nitro27 hulls that I cut the old crimp off of. I then put in 65-70 grs of 2F and then a plastic wad made for 2 1/2 in English guns. I add a 1 1/8 of 71/2 shot followed by a overshot card. Then off to the drill press to be roll crimped. I shoot these shells in a 1887 and a 1878 hammer gun. Afew squirts of Windex w/vinegar and the barrels shine like new. Two weeks ago after amatch a friend wanted to try my gun with smokeless loads. He fired about 8 rds and my cleanup was the same.