Thoughts about the .454

[44man]

I have never had a yearning for this caliber and only shot them from friends guns. Something about it. Now I have had to work with them more and find a lot I don't like.
Recoil is way more then is reasonable for the cartridge and lighter guns not only hurt but are hard to control.
I don't like the SR primer that can force out a boolit before ignition. You can't safely work starting loads with slow powder or it will not ignite.
A small change in the load or boolit can make POI change a lot.
I have no problems with my hand loads but many, many factory loads will pull under recoil and tie up the gun. I need a dowel and little hammer to dangerously set boolits or bullets back in the case so the cylinder can be opened. (Is it new, soft brass?)
Even small amounts of pull show up as changes on the chronograph.
You need to know exactly what you are doing when loading.
Using light loads defeats the purpose and a .45 Colt is better.
The boolit can be shot too fast and if too hard it makes a poor deer killer.
I would never trust a light gun in a bad situation with a bear, etc.
I was blaming the Freedom with the short cylinder but found cylinder tie up happens even with a longer cylinder. Even way over crimped factory loads will slip. Shows crimp is not enough.
Accuracy with a SR primer suffers.
No other caliber is giving me these problems.

[Trey45]

From just my own observations here, it seems the gun comics firmly believe that game animals have become tougher to kill in the last decade or so. Most would have us believe that North American whitetail deer can only be killed with one of the new wsm's or wssm's. The venerable 30WCF is mysteriously no longer capable of harvesting venison. Once again, I'm speaking purely from my own opinions here, with the recent (within the last 20 years) popularity of the Casull, and yes I realise just how old that cartridge is, but it has gained popularity by leaps and bounds within the last 20 years, and the introduction of these new super magnum calibers, ie, 460SW, 500SW mag it just seems that it's the same old story again. The old classic calibers are somehow incapable of performing like they have performed for decades in the past. You can't have sufficient bear protection unless you carry this new 500 SW MAg, REALLY? the 44 mag is now too aenemic to kill a bear? When did God start making these boolit proof animals? The way I see it here, if that 454 casull is giving you, or anyone else this much grief, why even bother with it? Your beloved 44 magnum is capable of everything that 454 can do, maybe not as fast, but stil effective. It will do the same job with less problem, with proven results you yourself have done time and time again. I'm a fan of the 45 Colt, in the right gun with the right load there's nothing a 44 mag can do that the 45 Colt can't do equally well. I toyed with the idea of buying a 454 Casull for a while, briefly, but realised the 45 Colt in my Rugers, with my loads, will do everything that 454 Casull will do, maybe not as fast, but still just as effective. I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Are your 44's broke? Nah, didn't think so!

[44man]

Trey, they are not my guns, I would never buy one for myself.
The .44 still shines.

[WARD O]

About 5 years ago my boss treated me to a FA M83 in 454 with an extra cylinder in 45 Colt. It was a geat gift and I really like the gun. I have many many custom reloads thru the 45 Colt cylinder but the 454 cylinder is still new. Some day I'm going to have to go try it.

I've never heard that complaint about bullet pull from anyone shooting the old FA factory loaded ammo - The crimp on those loads really looked extreme to me. Maybe all that changed when the 454 came under the SAAMI specs and others got in the game.

I guess that what I'm saying is that there just isn't anything I need a revolver to do that my heavy 45 Colt or one of my favorite 44 Mags or 44 Specials won't accomplish. I'm with you on the 44 caliber - it shines!

44man - have you played with the new Alliant 300MP powder yet?

Ward

[44man]

About 5 years ago my boss treated me to a FA M83 in 454 with an extra cylinder in 45 Colt. It was a geat gift and I really like the gun. I have many many custom reloads thru the 45 Colt cylinder but the 454 cylinder is still new. Some day I'm going to have to go try it.

I've never heard that complaint about bullet pull from anyone shooting the old FA factory loaded ammo - The crimp on those loads really looked extreme to me. Maybe all that changed when the 454 came under the SAAMI specs and others got in the game.

I guess that what I'm saying is that there just isn't anything I need a revolver to do that my heavy 45 Colt or one of my favorite 44 Mags or 44 Specials won't accomplish. I'm with you on the 44 caliber - it shines!

44man - have you played with the new Alliant 300MP powder yet?

Ward

No, I just blew my SS check on 296 but I would love to test it.
It is strange that Freedom ammo or my hand loads do not pull. I don't even approach the factory crimps and just use a moderate roll crimp.

[WARD O]

No, I just blew my SS check on 296 but I would love to test it.
It is strange that Freedom ammo or my hand loads do not pull. I don't even approach the factory crimps and just use a moderate roll crimp.

If you are using once (or more) fired brass, it might take a better grip on the bullet as opposed to new brass.

The old FA ammo had a very heavy crimp and I really haven't checked on any of the current brands available to compare.

On the 300MP, I don't shoot enough to really give it a test but I do intend to start playing with it. I guess I'll just go with 296 data and see where it leads.

Ward

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly ive had more problems with bullet pull in the 475 then either the 500 line or the 454. For the most part in any of them after about 3 firings even starline brass needs to be put in a box for lighter loads as case tension doesnt seem to hold up. The 500 is the best of the three but then again it runs at alot lower pressures.

[curdog]

I have a super redhawk in 454, it misfires every once and a while. I think I am doing something wrong with primer seating. I thought about 460 brass and trimming them but the price of them is too high. I am thinking about trading for a super blackhawk hunter model 44 mag. Do any of you have any thoughts on this?






































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[Ben]

Curdog :

Are your primers seated perfectly flush with the case head ? Have you tried more than one brand of primer to see if that influences the mis-fires?

Is this single action or double action when the misfires are occurring ?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I like my SRH in 454. I like it because its my heavy 45 Colt. I have shot no more than a half a dozen boxes of 454, but I have sent alot of 45 Colt down range out of it. POA just doesn't change much with load changes.

[wiersy111]

If your really looking for a big bore check out Magnum Research's BFR. I have the 45-70 with the 10" barrel, I love shooting it and have not had a single boolit come out of crimp. The recoil isn't bad at all. My son has the BFR 450 Marlin, now that one has an attitude but the recoil is still manageable.

[44man]

personaly ive had more problems with bullet pull in the 475 then either the 500 line or the 454. For the most part in any of them after about 3 firings even starline brass needs to be put in a box for lighter loads as case tension doesnt seem to hold up. The 500 is the best of the three but then again it runs at alot lower pressures.

That is funny Lloyd, I love the .475 and my brass is really getting old. I never had a boolit pull. Most brass has 20 to 30 loads.
Whitworth brings all kinds of factory loads to test and we have not had a problem but all .454 loads will pull except my loads or original Freedom loads. I really think it is the quick, sharp recoil. It really is different.

[curdog]

Ben: I have tried winchester sr and remington br sr primers. They looked to be seated in a little further than flush. Both primers misfired so it must be a seating problem. I am using a ram prime and seat until they stop, I am not ape ing on them as to mash the primer or anything. The gun pops the 45 colt primers all the time, maybe i should stay with that. I just hate to give up on it. Thank you for the info.

[ole 5 hole group]

I don’t know if I can be of any help but maybe you could try cleaning the primer pockets to see if that solves the problem. I know some primer pockets crud up pretty good and when seating the primer the “feel” is good but the primer may still have a little float and will FTF. You’ll probably see the firing pin strike will look like a little hit also. They normally fire on the second go-around.

As for the 460 brass cut down to 454 length, they have worked very well for me and I haven’t noticed any bullet pull after approximately 10 to 12 firings. I'm using the Redding Profile Crimp. I finally found a couple great low velocity loads for plinking & they are pretty accurate also. Using a BFR with a 6” barrel and the 460 case, WLP primers, a 340 grain hardcast behind 10.0 grains of HS-6 will shoot bug holes and the felt recoil is about like a 38 Special. Got that load from a J. Taffin article last week and gave it a go and was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy. Shooting full-on loads just isn't enjoyable for long range sessions but you do have the option.

[jwp475]

That is funny Lloyd, I love the .475 and my brass is really getting old. I never had a boolit pull. Most brass has 20 to 30 loads.
Whitworth brings all kinds of factory loads to test and we have not had a problem but all .454 loads will pull except my loads or original Freedom loads. I really think it is the quick, sharp recoil. It really is different.

I've never ever had a 454 reload pull crimp. I shoot a fair amount of Buffalo bore ammo in the 454 and have never ever had one pull crimp.

Like Lloyd I have had more 475'd pull crimp, 30 reloads on one case without problems? I like to live on fantasy island

[Lloyd Smale]

most of my problems come from the rcbs swc and the lee rf. Both of them are a bit wanting in crimp grove dept and thats probably a good part of the problem. Most of my problems with 454 are with ww brass. Have you had the same problem with the 460 brass you cut down? I still havent got around to testing the ammo i have loaded with them as ive been busy everyday with shooting crop management deer. Redhawks and super redhawks are notorious for light primer strikes. Federal primers will help. I can say thought that when using 454 brass with small primers ive never had a problem in my FA or even my alaskan with ww small rifle standard primers and in accuracy testing they usually prove to be the most accurate.

That is funny Lloyd, I love the .475 and my brass is really getting old. I never had a boolit pull. Most brass has 20 to 30 loads.
Whitworth brings all kinds of factory loads to test and we have not had a problem but all .454 loads will pull except my loads or original Freedom loads. I really think it is the quick, sharp recoil. It really is different.

[bbailey7821]

I think you may be doing something wrong... Not criticizing, but I shoot alot of 454's, most FA Brass with 340g GC's, CCI 450, WW296 powder. I've never had one pull a crimp. That being said, I agree that a "good ol' 44 Keith Load" will drop anything that breathes, on this continent with one, well placed shot.

[44man]

I think you may be doing something wrong... Not criticizing, but I shoot alot of 454's, most FA Brass with 340g GC's, CCI 450, WW296 powder. I've never had one pull a crimp. That being said, I agree that a "good ol' 44 Keith Load" will drop anything that breathes, on this continent with one, well placed shot.

I have never had one of my .454 hand loads pull either even when Whitworth shot 5 and removed the last one.
The problem was with all the various factory loads and he did have several light strikes with his RH.
I have been using Hornady .45 Colt dies to load with and I only use a medium roll crimp.
I think what is happening is the factory is putting such a hard crimp on them that it is breaking the case tension.
I use Hornady dies for my .475 and even the Lee 400 gr will not pull. I use no more then enough roll crimp to fold the edge into the little crimp scratch Lee uses.
I have never found a need for a hard crimp or full profile on any caliber.
I shoot thousands of 330 gr boolits out of my .44 with no more then a roll crimp and never seen one move.
I also crimp while seating on most calibers, never found a need for two operations unless I use a separate die.
Here are my crimps on a .500 JRH and .475.

[44man]

I feel too many just over crimp. It is only there to AID holding a boolit and you should not depend on it for doing all the holding or helping powder burn.
I would bet I use less crimp then anyone without a problem.
Remember that I asked Whitworth why the factory loads were crimped so much! I don't think they have an understanding of the mechanics involved and think they need a very hard crimp.
I have posted a thousand times that case tension holds the boolit and the least crimp you can get away with is best.
If you can hold Lee boolits, you can hold anything.

[Shooter]

From just my own observations here, it seems the gun comics firmly believe that game animals have become tougher to kill in the last decade or so. Most would have us believe that North American whitetail deer can only be killed with one of the new wsm's or wssm's. The venerable 30WCF is mysteriously no longer capable of harvesting venison. Once again, I'm speaking purely from my own opinions here, with the recent (within the last 20 years) popularity of the Casull, and yes I realise just how old that cartridge is, but it has gained popularity by leaps and bounds within the last 20 years, and the introduction of these new super magnum calibers, ie, 460SW, 500SW mag it just seems that it's the same old story again. The old classic calibers are somehow incapable of performing like they have performed for decades in the past. You can't have sufficient bear protection unless you carry this new 500 SW MAg, REALLY? the 44 mag is now too aenemic to kill a bear? When did God start making these boolit proof animals? The way I see it here, if that 454 casull is giving you, or anyone else this much grief, why even bother with it? Your beloved 44 magnum is capable of everything that 454 can do, maybe not as fast, but stil effective. It will do the same job with less problem, with proven results you yourself have done time and time again. I'm a fan of the 45 Colt, in the right gun with the right load there's nothing a 44 mag can do that the 45 Colt can't do equally well. I toyed with the idea of buying a 454 Casull for a while, briefly, but realised the 45 Colt in my Rugers, with my loads, will do everything that 454 Casull will do, maybe not as fast, but still just as effective. I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Are your 44's broke? Nah, didn't think so!

I tend to agree .
My .454 is an Encore, so I don't have most of these problems. The use I find for it is a way to shoot .45-70 loads without all the excess case volumn.
I size the Lyman 330 grain Goulds bullet to .454, and load it over lenght. It makes a great ".45-70 short"