I was told today that lead is hazardous

[ExcIsAc]

I met a guy today who I later learned works at a very large police training center.

In the course of our conversation he mentioned they had built a huge outdoor range several years ago but now they cannot use use it due to the environmental contamination caused by all the lead bullets. Now they do all their shooting at an indoor range. He mentioned they load out three cubic meters (almost 4 cubic yards of empty handgun brass every two to three months. I asked what they do with all the brass and lead hoping I could get an angle on some of one or the other or both. The brass is all sent to a remanufacturer but the lead "is too hazardous" so it is sent to an abandoned mine where it is buried deep underground.

In my mind I can't imagine the volume of lead required to result in three cubic meters of fired brass handgun cartridges. Each bullet would weigh significantly more than the case in which it was loaded. It is beyond my mental capabilities.

Also beyond my comprehension is the underground disposal. I am sure this facility (funded by taxpayers) is paying for the "safe disposal" of all this lead but even selling the lead at $0.25/pound to China or a scrapyard or a bullet caster would be better than burying it all.

[deerslayer]

Are you in California??

[Munkeyjoe]

Are you in California??

:Giggle:


Wow thats kinda odd. I shoot at a DOC outdoor range and at a Civ indoor range when the weather is not cooperative with quaterly qualifying. the ranges are both cleaned of and reused (not sure about the DOC range, will ask next time!!)The guy in the indoor range sells the ingots he collects to improve his range im told.

and have never heard of "burying" lead to be a safe Eco-friendly way of disposal. This seems kinda odd assome complain abouty backyard home Burm backstops contaminating, and here a agency (be it State, county, city or Feds) is collecting large amounts and putting it in the ground....... Very odd indeed.....

[snsbpb]

[QUOTE=ExcIsAc;961212]so it is sent to an abandoned mine where it is buried deep underground.
QUOTE]

Kinda reminds me of comex telling of all the treasury gold that is in "deep storage". It's just another way of saying, "out of sight, out of mind" and we are not going to account for it. Someone done stole it a long time ago and would cause panic if the truth were known.

Now I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack, but i'm not interested in any "paper lead".

[randyrat]

I'll bet that fellow at the range has an interest in that lead and brass and he would like to stop you from asking anymore questions about it. Is this fellow the range master? Maybe someone else gave this fellow a good story. If someone told me that story, i would be even more curious than "Curious George"

They don't recycle lead by putting in the ground

[ubetcha]

It's amazing that some people either forget or don't realize that lead comes from the ground to begin with.We as cast bullet shooter are just recycling or returning it back to the ground only at a faster volocity

[JIMinPHX]

I wonder if there is actually anything at all in the bottom of that old mine...

There is an open scrap market for lead. Recyclers buy it by the truckload. Lead/acid batteries (much more hazardous than used boolits) are the most commonly recycled item in the world. They get something like a 97% recycle rate. What you were told is ether blatant stupidity or an outright lie.

[cbrick]

Are you in California??

Yep, it simply must be California. ONLY California would consider such a thing. ONLY in California is there stupidity.

Besides, it's just so much easier to blame California and go on with your head firmly planted in your hieny.



Rick

[lwknight]

OH, thats just brilliant. The police disposal is burying the lead while miners are steady digging it up somewhere else.

[home in oz]

The range guy's story DOES sound fishy, at best.

[littlejack]

You bet your *** it's dangerous. If it wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't be shootin it.
It's REALLY dangerous anywhere from 400 to 2500 fps.
Jack

[fredj338]

Yep, it simply must be California. ONLY California would consider such a thing. ONLY in California is there stupidity.

Besides, it's just so much easier to blame California and go on with your head firmly planted in your hieny.

Rick

Only Kalifornia? Hardly. I believe NJ also bans lead ww, Oregon & Washington soon. By 2015, I am wagering the lead ww will be a relic in the USA & pretty tough to come by.
As far as stupidity, look to any state that covets union jobs or liberal Democrats in office. They all go under my stupid sign.

[twotoescharlie]

where does lead come from??

TTC

[snsbpb]

TTC, I know they used to mine a LOT of lead here in missouri and I guess they still do. The Doe Run Company mined an area in south east missouri, called "the lead belt". Here is an article on wikipedia about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_Run_Company

[jr81452]

Might be time for a little recon work. Follow the truck that cleans out the range. If it really does go to an old mine for disposal (highly suspect, but I've heard dumber things), report back. We will promptly form a liberation army to rescue said Pb from captivity.

[twotoescharlie]

If lead comes out of the earth, what's wrong with putting it back??

TTC

[lwknight]

They would be putting it back into a restricted waste disposal and it will never come back into circulation.

[finishman2000]

Only Kalifornia? Hardly. I believe NJ also bans lead ww, Oregon & Washington soon. By 2015, I am wagering the lead ww will be a relic in the USA & pretty tough to come by.
As far as stupidity, look to any state that covets union jobs or liberal Democrats in office. They all go under my stupid sign.

I haven't heard anything about NJ. I still get half of my lead from NJ shops and haven't heard a word.

found this about a pending bill in NY
http://www.government-fleet.com/Chan...eight-Ban.aspx

I have a friend of a friend to use to sell WW's and has half a 20' shipping container full of all different size and style of WW's. If they ban it I think I'll get a better deal.

[geargnasher]

If lead comes out of the earth, what's wrong with putting it back??

TTC

The argument is semantical at best, but lead comes from Galena, it has to be smelted from the mineral to be usable, as does just about any metal. Putting purified lead and lead alloys back into the ground is not the same thing as you're thinking, according to the way I understand it. In alkaline soil, lead quickly oxidizes on the surface and becomes stable for centuries without leaching into the ground water. In acidic soil, the lead can continue to corrode and slough off material into the surrounding enviroment.

I'm not arguing any kind of point, just spewing a few second-hand facts

Gear

[ReloaderFred]

I would suggest to the original poster that he refer his acquaintance to the NSSF website: www.nssf.org. The National Shooting Sports Foundation, along with the EPA, have published books and guidelines for dealing with lead on both indoor and outdoor ranges, and they don't advocate taking it to Haz Mat facilities. Lead on, or from, a range is a recyclable metal, and as such can be legally and safely reclaimed.

The reason California gets so much blame is Prop. 57, which proclaimed lead a hazardous substance. It was the first, and most quoted, of all the claims about lead and it was based on hysteria, not science.

Hope this helps.

Fred