Double Charge - Be Careful!!!

[4570guy]

I have always prided myself at being a very careful handloader. I started handloading with my Dad when I was 10 and then after a long hiatus after college, I've been loading consistently for 5 years. All-together, I'd say I have about 12 years of handloading experience but with a long dry spell between age 18 and age 39. I'm sharing this story to swallow some of that pride and to hopefully prevent this from happening to somebody else. Fortunately, nothing bad happened - but it could have!

I just now caught a double-charged case of 45 ACP. My standard load is 4.8 gr of Bullseye under a 230 gr LRN. I use mixed headstamp brass in my 45's but the majority of it is Winchester (I'll explain why that's relevant in a moment). I have a Lyman DPS 3 automatic powder measure and I load on a single stage RCBS Jr press.

My standard procedure when using the Lyman is to set it on auto-repeat, throw a load, dump it in the case, visually check the powder in the case, return the pan to the powder measure and seat the bullet while the Lyman is measuring out the next charge. For those that aren't familiar with the Lyman DPS 3, it has a cartridge counter that displays the number of charges that have been thrown during that loading session.

I typically weigh a couple of the automatically thrown charges on my manual powder scale when I first start a reloading session just to double check the accuracy of the Lyman. I have never found the Lyman to be off, but I still check it after I first set it up. This is where I got into trouble this morning.

Anyway - enough of the background info...

I started reloading this morning and I checked the first three charges on the powder scale - everything looked good. I proceeded on with my reloading session. About 50 rounds into it, I got to noticing that the Lyman cartridge counter (something I don't normally pay much attention to) was showing one more cartridge than I had loaded. This isn't too unusual as I sometimes dump a thrown charge back into the powder tube and continue on without resetting the counter.

Well, I loaded about 10 more cartridges or so and that extra charge count on the counter was really starting to nag at the back of my mind. I didn't throw any charges back into the container this morning, so there was no reason I could think of as to why that counter would be off by one. I finally thought - if I had accidentally double charged a case, it would show up on the counter as being off by one. I thought back through my process this morning and I figured if I DID double charge a case, it was most likely when I was weighing out those first three charges on the manual scale because that had interrupted my "normal" charge-dump-seat process. Note that the auto-repeat function was set while I was manually checking charge weights.

I decided to pull the bullet on the first case I had loaded. Nope - everything was fine. I recharged that case and reseated the bullet... continued loading additional cartridges. That extra charge count was still nagging in the back of my head. Then I thought - I could have double charged any of the first four cases since I weighed multiple powder throws this morning. I then started weighing loaded rounds looking for one that might be 5 grs or so heavy.

(This is where the Winchester brass is important - Winchester brass tends to weigh a few grains less than Remington or other brass - I had to baseline a loaded Winchester case.) I weighed several loaded rounds where I knew I had a good load. Everything was consistent within a half grain or so. Then I checked the third cartridge that I'd loaded this morning - Winchester case - overall weight was 5 gr too high.

I pulled that bullet and sure enough - 9.6 gr of Bullseye - twice my normal load.

So - here are some things I thought of in my procedure that I will be changing from now on:

1) Even though my "normal" process is to visually check the powder prior to seating each bullet - apparently I sometimes forget. Bad. I must be more diligent here. But, I also need to change other processes to cover for those times I forget to look.

2) I need to NOT set the auto-repeat feature when I'm checking charge weights on my manual scale. Having the auto-repeat running meant that I had two pans of powder on the bench at the same time. Both apparently got dumped into one case - the third loaded round of today. If I had not had the auto-repeat feature set, only one pan of powder would have been available to charge a case with. Mental note...

3) I need to make sure I pay attention to what the charge counter on the Lyman displays and not blow it off. That is what got my alarm bells going in my head in the first place.

This just goes to show that even the safest handloaders can get careless sometimes. If I hadn't found this double-charge, at best I would have most likely damaged my 1911, at worst I would have hurt myself or a bystander.

[1Shirt]

Since I blew a rifle with a double charge (I think), I weigh each finished ctg that has less than half the case full of powder. Important to have same batch/weight brass. Takes a little more time, but sure does eliminate the wonder factor.
1Shirt!

[3006guns]

I've had one double charge adventure by double stroking my Dillon.......still don't know why......but I instantly realized what happened and pulled the round apart.

On the other hand, the old adage about paying attention doesn't apply to me....until I just finished a batch of .38 Smith and Wesson and started to pour the excess powder back into the container. I rotated the can and suddenly realized that I had just loaded about 50 with an excessive charge of Bullseye, not Unique. The cans look identical.....but Jeez, I COULD have read the label and the two powders don't even LOOK the same! To make matters worse, I had been placing each finished round in a box with about 200 properly loaded rounds. Weighing each one wasn't trustworthy, so I ended up breaking down all 250 rounds to find the mistakes. Irritating, but safe.

They say that familiarity breeds contempt.......in other words, never take anything for granted. My lovely old 1905 Hand Ejector might have turned into a grenade with no one to blame but myself.

[Wally]

4570Guy

Glad that the Good Lord warned you and that you heeded...

I make it a habit to charge my cases and place them in a loading block--I then inspect the level of each with a flashlight. I have yet to ever find that I had ever douible charged any, but one must be vigilent.

Also one should also double check the poise on a manual scale. On my powder measure there are increments that I keep recoded...another way to double check that you are using the correct powder charge. I know one fine fellow that weighs each & every one of his..I can't say I'd ever go that far.

[ph4570]

I weight each loaded round. It goes real fast with the digital scale. I have yet to find a double charge. However, just the other day for the 1st time I found two uncharged rounds. I will continue to weigh each loaded round.

[4570guy]

Funny that here was a case where I was being careful with a safety measure and it ended up resulting in a double charged case. I work in the Aerospace industry and its interesting that you'll find similar things leading to accidents (i.e., performing a safety check, but in doing so, some way leading to an accident).

I just finished weighing each and every loaded round of 45 ACP I have in stock (350 rds). I found 6 suspicious cartridges that were about 5 gr over-weight. I pulled all 6 apart and they checked fine. In those 6 cases, the brass (Winchester brass in each instance) was about 5 gr heavy. So - weighing loaded rounds (even with brass of the same manufacture) won't tell you for sure you have a double charge - it is just an early indicator.

[ghh3rd]

Since you are using an auto dispenser, you are seating boolits while the next charge is trickling into the pan. I do the same thing. This makes it more difficult to detect a double charge, as you don't have anything to compare to.

To solve this issue, I came up with the following solution. I have started to charge one round with powder (not load a boolit into it) and compare the next charge to it. You will always have one to compare to, until you are done, and load a boolit into the final case.

I feel that this is the next best thing to blocking 50 rounds and using a flashlight to visually compare powder levels.

Randy

[4570guy]

That method is actually what sort of got me into trouble this morning. I don't like having two sources of powder on the bench at the same time.

One thing I've always done with each of my powders and cartridges I load for is to purposely throw a double charge and look inside the case to see what it looks like. For all my rifle loads, a double charge will either over-flow the case or so nearly over-flow it that it will obvious when seating the bullet. Fast pistol powder is another case though.

By resetting the cartridge counter on the Lyman after every block of 50 and now using that in my cross-check, I'll know when something is wrong. If the number of charges thrown don't add up to the number of cartridges I've loaded, I know to stop and look for a problem. Also, I will never again have the auto-dispense (repeat) function set when I'm manually checking the powder weights. That way, there is no way I'll have two charges on the bench at the same time.

[BCB]

I don't know what type of powder dispenser you are using, although you did mention the type--I just am not familar with it...

I throw the first charge and weigh it to what I want. I then place that charge in a case...

With the powder measurer set at that charge, I drop charges into cases and set them side by side until I get 10 or so...

Then I throw a charge and weight it and put it in a case and set it beside the other cases that have been charged...

I then have 2 that I know are correct. I small flashlight shined down on all of them quiickly allows me to observe the powder level in each case. A double change is easily detected...

This is the only way I reload ammo if I am just dropping charges into the cases and now weighing all of them...

A bit time-consuming, but I still have all my weapons and fingers...

Good-luck...BCB

[Phat Man Mike]

sometimes we tend to busy and not watch what we're doing! good thing you caught it!!

[mike in co]

again...i have said it over and over.....

only use charges thet fill the case 50% or more....a double will not allow you to seat the bullet.( (not useaable case volume, actual case voume)


now tell me is all the money you have saved scrimping on powder worth any one of your guns ? your right hand ? your eyesight ?

wake up and smell the roses.........

pretty simple approach with a fail safe built in.......

two exceptions:
1) single loaded cast boolit rifle rounds..as in reloaded one at a time.....only one case gets powder, then a boolit is seated.

2) my 45acp load with 230 lead rn is aprox 90% when doubled...cannot seat the boolit, and i will see it when placing the boolit on the case......

mike in co

[mmorris]

Funny that here was a case where I was being careful with a safety measure and it ended up resulting in a double charged case. I work in the Aerospace industry and its interesting that you'll find similar things leading to accidents (i.e., performing a safety check, but in doing so, some way leading to an accident).

I think that this is a very good point to note - new reloader or multi-year veteran - since we tend to look for procedures to insure safety in our own loading routines. Safety checks can be dangerous in themselves

The only time I have had an issue with incorrect charge (squib) was due to my dumping a charge I verified on the scale back into the powder measure instead of into the case. It is not uncommon for people to miss things when concentrating on complex tasks due to distraction within the process.

As a relatively new reloader, I am trying to develop methods to counteract this phenomenon. I have switched to a progressive so I can have a powder COP with both a light (green/red) and a buzzer.

Mike

[.45Cole]

I worry about that too in my .32 .45's so I fill all in a batch with powder and intentionally double charge one of them in the end. Then simply note the difference in appearance and look over all the cases and then OOPS there is the one i placed intentionally. Dump and refill the double charged. That's what I like about the 7/08 .250 and 22.250, they all have 90-95% load density .

[BCB]

mike in co

I somewhat agree with your thoughts, but why give up a fast-burner just because there is danger of a double charge?...

Saving money is saving money and that is very important today. Half the powder charge per case is ½ the price of the powder per case!...

I use 8 grains of Unique in my 45LC with the 45-270-SAA boolit. You can seat this slug over a double charge, but I ain’t given up Unique, at least in this cartridge. Although Unique may not be considered a “fast-burner” I don’t know what the double charge might do…

As I previously mentioned my technique, it is a safe way to reload cases with less than 50% filling the cases. Progressive loaders might be a different story…

I reload small weight charges of Bullseye in my 38 Special and 357 Magnum and SOMETIMES (very seldom) in my 45LC. Ain’t given that fast-burner up at all! Same with Red Dot or Winchester 231. A pound goes a very long way! With the particular charges I use for the 38 Special I get approximately 2800 rounds per pound and with the 45 LC approximately 2000 rounds per pound…

Plenty of dangerous situations in everyday life, but we can’t give up living; just try to avoid the problem areas by using good common sense and alertness…

Good-luck…BCB

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Well I am glad you caught your mistake, instead of posting pictures of a destroyed 1911. I too personally use a Lyman DPS 3 system and I really like it, I also use the auto repeat feature. However I use a load tray and charge all my cases before I seat any boolits. After charging I gently shake the tray to make the powder settle, then I inspect each case with a small keychain flashlight. A double charge can easily be spotted by comparing the levels of powder to one another. I also try to use a powder and a load that makes a double charge impossible without overflowing the case, but then again I load a lot of 45Colt.

Stay safe my friend and thank you for sharing that story, it is a good reminder for all of us to double, triple, and quadruple check our work.

[mike in co]

mike in co

I somewhat agree with your thoughts, but why give up a fast-burner just because there is danger of a double charge?...

Saving money is saving money and that is very important today. Half the powder charge per case is ½ the price of the powder per case!...


Good-luck…BCB

"now tell me is all the money you have saved scrimping on powder worth any one of your guns ? your right hand ? your eyesight ?"

he just proved my point...he had a double...yes he caught it...but what if......

i have never loaded a double charge.....and you know why....

he has had double charge...because it is possible.....

penny wise and dollar foolish.......

mike in co

[GBertolet]

I'm glad you were saved from an accident. Personally I don't trust all that hi tech stuff. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I use an old RCBS powder measure and a 10-10 beam scale for all non progressive loading. I have all my brass in a box on one side of the powder measure. I take one case, charge it, and place it in a loading block on the other side of the measure. When i'm done I hold the block under the light to verify all cases have similar levels of powder, in case there might be bridging. This is for both rifle and pistol. This system is about as fool proof as you can get. I often see pictures of people holding a whole block of cases under the powder measure and charging them a row at a time. All you need to do is lose count or be distracted and you could have a missed charge or a double, provided it doesn't overflow the case. I hope they check the block under a light when they are done.

[Recluse]

That method is actually what sort of got me into trouble this morning. I don't like having two sources of powder on the bench at the same time.

I not only don't like it, but I refuse to ever have more than one powder container on my bench. Ever. Been that way for over thirty years.

Almost learned why the hard and painful way.

[BCB]

Mike in co

As I said, I mostly agree with the reasoning behind your method…

But, if you read GBertolet’s post, his method is similar to mine. The difference is I have 2 charges that are weighed for each dozen of so, plus or minus, and then use the flashlight to look inside the case…

I also use a Lee powder measurer or my RCBS measurer. I weigh the 2 charges on an RCBS 304 scale…

I suppose a mistake could occur, but the odds get very small if attention is paid to the process…

Plus the cases that I am using Bullseye in are straight wall cases and the charges, even a double charge would not be devastating to the handgun or the shooter. I DO NOT use the fast burners in bottle necked cases. Yea, I have tried it, but results were not good. Each of these charges was weighed as I do know the problems that can occur…

A young man was killed in a vehicle accident in front of my house about a month ago. There is risk at just driving to work. I ride a motorcycle…

Yep, the money saved on powder is probably insignificant, but I put the light loads to work for me. I shoot in my garage when the weather is lousy and they shoot across the garage into an 18” long log. When the log is rattled, I split it apart and remelt the lead—double savings there—powder and lead…

To each his own I guess…

Good-luck…BCB

[excavman]

I use a 3" piece of eigth inch wooden dowel and mark it with a magic marker. When I charge a block of fifty bottle-neck cases I do the flashlight check and it there is any doubt I'll use the dowel to measure the powder depth just to make sure.

Larry