Help, ugly bullets

[stang68]

I'm a newbie and my first 2 casting sessions went well, my boolits looked good although they may have had a frosted look. I then had a session in which my boolits looked to be pitted. I cleaned the mold well with dish soap and mineral spirits and the boolits were better but still not great. I've since had 2 sessions in which the boolts look terrible. I don't know whether they're frosted, wrinkled, not filled out, or polluted from dirty lead to tell the truth. I'm not all that great with picture taking either, hope they're good enough for y'all to determine what the problem is.

[Orygun]

Looks like dirty alloy to me. Are you fluxing well and with what?

[No_1]

I could not blow up the pics large enough to see. What I can see looks like dirt. Remember to flux, flux, flux because your alloy can never be too clean.

Robert

[67bear]

Maybe try using Birchwood Caseys Gunscrubber or automotive brake cleaner to clean the mold. I have had good luck cleaning my molds with a solvent that doesn't leave any petroleum residue. And flux well as others have said.

[mooman76]

Are you top poring or bottom? If you are ladle casting scrap all the gunk to the side and scoop out the clean lead. As you get a spoonful or so of gunk built up, scoop it out and dispose of it. It looks like just dirt to me.

[stang68]

I'm using paraffin for flux and I did it often during the casting session. I'm using wheel weight ingots and I get a lot of brown stuff that looks like dirt that I'm been dipping out but it's also coated the sides of my pot. Would that be what it is or does lead oxide look like dirt? My bottom pour also has started leaking a lot, I have to do the screwdriver thing often. I may try a short casting session tomorrow with the lead temp higher just to see if I can get a good boolit. If I want to completely empty the pot and clean it, how would I do that?

[sagacious]

I'm using paraffin for flux and I did it often during the casting session. I'm using wheel weight ingots and I get a lot of brown stuff that looks like dirt that I'm been dipping out but it's also coated the sides of my pot. Would that be what it is or does lead oxide look like dirt? My bottom pour also has started leaking a lot, I have to do the screwdriver thing often. I may try a short casting session tomorrow with the lead temp higher just to see if I can get a good bullet. If I want to completely empty the pot and clean it, how would I do that?

All of these things are classic signs of not fluxing. Your bullets show visble dross inclusions and oxide particles (good to include pics, as it helps in the diagnosis). If you are "fluxing" with paraffin, your fluxing process isn't doing what it needs to. Read up on fluxing: http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm

Yes, lead oxide may look like "dirt." Sounds as though you're running the pot too hot. Most newbies run too hot, not too cold, and most newbies turn to even higher heat to solve their problems. More heat is not always better! Too much heat is likely what's causing your high rate of oxide formation, and more heat will only make it worse. Oxides/dross will clog the spout and/or cause leaking. Pour at the lowest setting that provides consistent, good fillout.

Frosty bullets are not "ugly" bullets. Frosty is OK, and according to the instructions LEE includes with their molds, frosted bullets hold Alox better, and may allow higher velocity.

Your mold is doubtless clean by now. You'll continue to have fillout problems/dross inclusions/pitted bullets/etc until you get the fluxing down, and run the pot at a lower temp. That's good news, as both those things are easily fixable. Other than that, your bullets are OK and everything else sounds/looks normal, so you should be back to perfect once these kinks are worked out.

Empty the pot by pouring the lead out through the spout, and then scrape the sides clean while still hot. Be careful. Once it's clean, start over, and flux, flux, flux!

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[stang68]

Thanks Sagacious and all others that replied, I read the reference you mentioned about fluxing but will go back to it again. I know that the thermostat index numbers on the Lee 10# production pot mean nothing except a reference but I thought I had it low at 7.5, will go lower, can't do a lead thermometer right now. I've also from the Lee site and here and elsewhere that frosty is good, it holds more of the lube.

[Bass Ackward]

Sometimes "we" get into fetishes that can result in them violating casts first principal.

Whether that is great looking or perfect weighing bullets. Or nice shiny brass. Even over infatuation with pretty targets can eliminate your ability to simply have fun!

Dress them suckers up and get'em ready to party. See what the target looks like before we talk too badly about them. If the target's no good, then expend them in water where you only have to get close to stimulate excitement. Water makes us all look good.

Perform better on the next batch.

[stang68]

Just like when we did annual familiarization with the 1911 while at sea, I managed to hit the water every time!

[HangFireW8]

I'm using paraffin for flux and I did it often during the casting session. I'm using wheel weight ingots and I get a lot of brown stuff that looks like dirt that I'm been dipping out but it's also coated the sides of my pot.

When you say you are using wheel weights... do you start with them in your casting pot, flux, and then cast? If so, that is the problem. You'll never get your casting pot clean enough in the same session until you empty it and scrape it out.

Make some ingots in one session, hopefully in a separate pot, flux and scrape and when you pour them you may still see some dirt still on top of each ingot. Scrape that off after it cools.

Then when you melt the ingots in your cleaned-out casting pot, there won't be much dirt.

-HF

[stang68]

I guess I wasn't clear on that, I bought 50 # of wheel weight ingots from a local guy for $50.

[stang68]

Bass Akwards:

You're right, after a couple of beers, the more I look at them, the purtier they are, kind of like at closin' time.

[littlejack]

s68:
The person you got the alloy from may not have cleaned the melt very good when making ingots. There is a lot of "HEAVY" sediment in dirty metal, i.e. wheel weights, old used flashing,
etc. You may want to melt your metal in something other than your bottom pour, to flux and mix to get all the impurities out that you can. Then you can restart your bullet cast session.
Also, don't forget to clean out your bottom pour pot.
I stopped using a bottom pour electric Lyman a couple years ago because of the inclusions "slag particales" in the bullets. I now cast with a Colman stove, pot and ladle. That has solved my problem completely.
Jack

[stang68]

Thanks Jack, I've been thinking along those lines.

[EDK]

A lot of good suggestions on fluxing in the above posts. I've tried everything from motor oil to bullet lube to commercial fluxes....the best commercial flux was from GAR in New Jersey...long out of business.

What I like now is to get the melt hot and sprinkle sawdust on top, stir vigorously and then let it solidify with a minimal loss of boolit metal. Skim it off and then a small piece of beeswax to re-flux as needed.

A smelting pot for initial cleaning...or re-cleaning...is a good idea. My brother smelts wheel weights (and does a good job!) and trades me ingots for his share of the motel bill at the Quigley Shoot in Forsyth Montana.

It's a d*** poor day I don't learn something new here....and I've been casting for 40+ years.

[MtGun44]

those are not bullets, they are BOOLITS. Bullet have these funny copper wrappers on them.

Terminology is important to get right.

Bill

[shotman]

couple of things
you said new to casting and wheel weights
the frosting is good means melt is hot
second pc looks like it was too cold
one zinc WW in a 10lb will do that, if the temp is too low , its like adding sand to the melt
also get you some Kroil see sticky
as for cleaning pot sand blast is best you can get a small one from harbor freight cheap
play sand and a gas station if you dont have a compressor

[Bret4207]

Flux, make darn sure your mould is clean and keep the MOULD hot, don't worry so much about pot temp. I believe I see rounded edges and incomplete fillout- signs of a cool mould. Pot heat-mould heat. Two very different things. Stop looking at the boolits and cast till the sprues need an abnormal amount of time to cool. Then slow down and aim for the spot where the best looking boolits come. I believe those are from a Lee mould, probably a 6 cav? THey need to be kept hot.

FYI- Sometimes it takes a couple, 3 casting sessions to get the crud out of the mould.

[Bass Ackward]

Bass Akwards:

You're right, after a couple of beers, the more I look at them, the purtier they are, kind of like at closin' time.

Sure!!! And you are going to make other mistakes with lube or seating those or running them to too high a pressure that needing perfect bullets right off is a waste. Use the really bad ones for foulers on your first few cylinders till you get the gun good and sloppy dirty.

Besides, if you are not satisfied with the results, you will pay more attention next time.

Smooth seas do not a good mariner make. (Just had to throw that in. )