Bottom pour or dipper?

[Capn Jack]

Thanks Lloyd,

I'll give 'er another try. I was holding the mold tightly against the spout on the pot and a lot of times it would try to stick there. I believe that's why a lot of the boolits had pin holes in the bottoms

!!!

Now a friend of mine said,"No hold the mold away from the spout until it fills. Sounds messy, but I'm going to try it.

[robertbank]

I pour thousands of pistol/rifle bullets and use the bottom pour pot (RCBS Pro Melter). I found it to be so much faster than pouring with a ladle. I set the pot on high andwater quench all my bullets. It takes a bit of practice but once you get on to it I think you will find your bullets willb e consistent as to weight and quality. I usually have three moulds going at once in order to keep the moulds from overheating.

Good Luck

Take Care

Bob

[sargenv]

I find that every time I pour from my bottom pour, I have to relearn what the mold likes. I can't give any real advice other than keep at it. Some ppl like the dipper, others like the bottom pour. I found that the dipper didn't work for me so the bottom pour just seemed easier. I have tried to pour fast and slow and found that the slow method seems to get better fillout and I try to keep my molds at a steady temp, cooling them when the sprue cuts too easily. I warm my molds up by pouring without the sprue in place so that I can easily separate the cavities and dump out the sample bullets with the puddles on top. I run about a half dozen of these casts before putting the sprue in place and start casting my real boolits. All of that goes back into the pot once poured. I found that casting temp between 650 and 700 on my thermometer works good and gives pretty good results. My usual alloy is WW with a little bit of added tin.

[mdi]

OK fellas, thanks for your experiences. But, I'm wondering why would ladle pouring makes for better large slugs? If you think about it, logically, a bottom pour would produce a more consistant flow of molten lead. Not trying to argue, want to know.

BTW; I do both, depends on how I feel at the moment, and I get good boolits from both methods.

[shdwlkr]

I have gone from bottom pour to ladle pour just cause I can and I have more fun doing it. My pot is a Lee and it kept plugging up on me so I went to ladle pour and can still use my plugged pot. Yes I know I could clean it but just don't want to waste my time doing it and am looking at a 20 pound laddle pour pot.

[bohokii]

ive done so many with a skillet and a spoon

[skeet1]

I used to ladle pour all my bullets even though I had an old Saeco bottom pour pot. I tried to use it with the mould tight against the bottom of the pot and then held away. I varied the flow from fast to slow and no matter what I did I couldn't make it it work right. Well the time came for a new pot and being frugal that meant a Lee pot. I was going to buy a dipper pot but there wasn't much difference between it and the 4-20 bottom pour so I thought I would try one more time.

Well after suffering all that time with the old Saeco the Lee works great from the bottom of the pot when I held it away with a fast stream and let it flow over the sprue plate to make a decent size sprue. Very happy with the new Pot.

Skeet1

[DukeInFlorida]

I've done a bunch of casting with a dipper. However, it was mostly fishing weights, and some bullets. The bullet casting was so tedious that it made more sense (to me) to do it with a bottom pour pot. My first bottom pour was a Lee 20 pounder, and that was OK for the price.

But, after a while, I was looking for better quality, and less issues with the pot.

I'm now happily casting with an RCBS Pro Melt (20 pounds), and I wouldn't do it any other way.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think thats the reason at least half the people that bad mouth bottom pour pots do so. The only experience they have with them is with lees.

I've done a bunch of casting with a dipper. However, it was mostly fishing weights, and some bullets. The bullet casting was so tedious that it made more sense (to me) to do it with a bottom pour pot. My first bottom pour was a Lee 20 pounder, and that was OK for the price.

But, after a while, I was looking for better quality, and less issues with the pot.

I'm now happily casting with an RCBS Pro Melt (20 pounds), and I wouldn't do it any other way.

[SharpsShooter]

if your getting inconsistant weights with even large bullets using a bottom pour you either have the pour rate or temp set wrong. Ive casted probably well over a million bullets on with a bottom pour and can easily get just as good of bullets even when casting 500 grain 512s with a bottom pour as i can with a dipper and do it with alot less work. Its just like learning anything else new. It takes a bit of time and trial and error before you get the feel for it.

Amen Loyd!


Temperature and good notes are key. A thermometer is worth more than a dipper. To achieve success, use first a good clean alloy, poured at consistent rates and correct temperatures. Once you determine the numbers, repeatable quality castings are a snap. I run a 10 and a 20 pounds pot. Both produce fine 540gr postells.

SS

[DLCTEX]

I cast boolits up to 540 gr. with a Lee bottom pour with good results. If you pressure pour it helps to pull the mould slightly away when it is filled to make a puddle on the sprue plate to avoid the Pits in the base. Temp is King in pouring good, consistent boolits, large or small.

[mdi]

Nobody knows why?

[Capn Jack]

I guess it's just like anything else...90% Technique.

[sergeant69]

dammit! i wanted to bottom pour when i started back again. guess not! can someone suggest a GOOD ladle/dipper and technique? THANKS

[Cap'n Morgan]

Nobody knows why?

I believe it's not because ladle pour is better than bottom pour, but because you eliminate some of the variables involved in bottom pouring, like varying pressure depending on the amount of lead in the pot. I use the same BP technique as Crash Corrigan describe, and find it much easier to get uniform results this way, but it takes a little getting used to. Also, splashing inside the cavity is more pronounced when bottom pouring, causing more wrinkled boolits unless the mold is up to temp. When it comes to boolits I'll take whiskers over wrinkles any time... with women it's the other way around

[Croomrider]

OK fellas, thanks for your experiences. But, I'm wondering why would ladle pouring makes for better large slugs? If you think about it, logically, a bottom pour would produce a more consistant flow of molten lead. Not trying to argue, want to know.

BTW; I do both, depends on how I feel at the moment, and I get good boolits from both methods.

I used to cast by pouring a full ladle of lead over the top of the mould and let the excess run back into the pot. I think the reason this gives more consistent weights is that it insures that the sprue cools last. If the sprue cools last it lets the bullet cavity pull in more molten lead as it cools and contracts and leaves no voids in the bullet. If you pour from a bottom pour, you just fill it up and don't allow extra moulten lead to pour over the sprue. If the sprue cools first it can leave a cavity in the bullet. That being said, I do not think a small cavity that is fairly well centered in the base of the bullet affects accuracy to an appreciable degree unless it is used for long range.

Now with the above explanation out of the way I will say that I have started casting pistol bullets with a Lee 6 cavity and a Lee bottom pour pot and will never go back to ladle pouring for this type of application. I love it, and you can make tons of bullets of very reasonable quality in a big hurry!

Mike

[Capn Jack]

OK, OK...I take it all back

Had some time yesterday and took the old Lyman 61 apart again. This time I went through and totally cleaned the seat area, (again) then I used valve grinding compound to lap in the valve (again). Put it all together and filled it with water.
It leaked worse than ever. Took it apart (again). This time I put the stem in the lathe and changed the angle of the seat a little, then I put it in a drill motor and seated it in again with valve grinding compound. Re-assembled and filled with water. It didn't leak a drop!!
Fired it up and cast 60 with the 300gr. dbl. mold. Held the mold aprox 3" under the spout and let a generous sprew form. Half-way through the drip started again, but only once every 5 secounds. I can live with that.

The real news is...all except 3 of the boolits cast to within + - 1/2 GR.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Please note, I am not refering to a recent posts in the following, just the fact that some stones have in the past gone both directions ---------------------


YEP!!!!!!!!!, it is indeed weird how we have what works for each of us.

There are known and respected voices on this thread who, if I hadn't been there and tried that, might even convince me to try the bottom pour method.

However, if they will do the same for me, I won't throw stones in their direction if they return the favor.

I have tried the bottom pour, and have watched others while in process, and for me and IMHO it just won't work up to my level of requirment/production.

Remember, your going to be nice here, NO ROCKS!

I cast good boolits, they are not worthy of remelting BEFORE shooting, but casting is a means to an end for me, not something I do, like reloading, just for the fun of it.

I need to set up each time I cast, and then afterward take down and put away, so it is not a spur of the moment thing.

Therefore I do wish maximum production from my casting sessions, production far greater then would be possible from the typical electric and/or bottom pour pots.

The volumn of metal is much too small, and with the speed of the typical pot, I would need multipal pots, probably 2 or 3 at the very least - to keep enough metal ready to go.

As I stated back many posts ago, I like to cast with a partner and depending on the outside temp. we run at least 4 - 5 molds, four to six cavity whenever possible.

2 - 2 1/2hours is about all I can handle in a casting session, before back and legs really starting to complain. So, considering the last two sessions produced about 125lb of boolits you can see I need a good and continuing supply of hot metal.

The first of the last two sessions was with a new partner - who buy the way shares in the production, - so about half or more of that session was at much slower then normal pace. But even at that, over a total of 5 hours or less we averaged 25lbs an hour.

With the realistic average, the pace with which we started the second session, being closer to 35 - 40 lbs. of production per hour, you can see that it would require a number of pots, all running at the same time, to produce my desired volumn.

Now, remember no throwing stones here!

AS STATED, I would be delighted to work with a bottom pour pot, rather then getting out the Ol'Colman stove and setting up and then cleaning up an putting away again, but without going to a commercial level system with the BIG$$$$$$$$$ involved, I don't see that happening.

To bad we can't all get together and each of us learn from the other, but as that is not likely to happen, your just going to need to take me at my word that my maximized effort does produce quality boolits and lots of them very rapidly.

So again, each of us has developed our own method, or are in the process of doing so. Can we learn from each other? You bet, but until we can somehow get together for a hands on learning time, throwing stones sure won't help the progress.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[BruceB]

Poundage of the finished product is largely unimportant as a single variable. TIME is the determining factor, and the only difference between casting light bullets or heavy bullets is the slightly-longer time needed to fill a larger cavity. The number of bullets cast is the important figure, I think. All the hand motions, etc are the same between heavy and light bullets.

Using a 200-grain bullet as an easy-to-calculate mid-range weight, one pound of alloy yields 35 bullets.

I say this with utter seriousness and truth: With ONE 2-cavity mould and my RCBS bottom-pour pot, I can turn out 14 POUNDS of 200-grain bullets in one hour (500 per hour). With ONE 4-cavity Lyman mould, I can also cast 23 POUNDS of 200-grain bullets (800 per hour). On good runs, these figures can be exceeded without undue effort, and on occasion over 1000 bullets have been cast in one hour from a 4-cavity mould. Using more than one mould actually slows me down, because the way I do it, there's zero down-time waiting for anything to cool. Bullet quality is excellent.

The heaviest bullets I've cast to date weigh 888 grains in straight WW for the .50 BMG, also cast from the bottom-pour pot and also without problems. Crank up the heat!

Casting is not a means for income or trading stock for me, and I find that the production rate I use generates ample supplies of bullets for my personal purposes. That's probably true for the vast majority of casters on this Board. I've been beating the drum for the speedcasting method I use for so long that even *I* am sick of it, but for one more kick at the cat, go to the top of Page Two on the "Stickies" forum and read the write-up ("BruceB's Speedcasting Method").

[Tom-ADC]

Right now I'm using my Lee bottom pour to make small ingots out of big ones.
I can see how practice makes perfect, Later this week I'll try my 1st boolits all will be 500 to 535 gr for my 45-70.
Crank up the heat