Accuracy test with Lar45's lubes

[44man]

OK, in between cutting the lawn and cleaning the whole bathroom I went down and shot my .475 for accuracy at 50 yd's. These are not whimp loads either and 1/2 gr more powder will stick cases. The load is my 430 gr GC, truncated cone boolit. 26 gr's of 296 and the Fed 155 primer. The gun is a BFR 7-1/2". Wrist twisters delux. As many of you know, I don't like Alox whether Lee LA or any other mix. I don't know what the glamour is about it but it never prevented leading and was never the most accurate. I have played with the stuff for as long as I can remember and todays test bears out what I think. The boolit I chose averages 1" or a little more at 50 yd's with Felix. I did not weigh them and the red dot covered a 2" white spot so any groups better then I can hold and see are good.
I started with Carnauba Red, then Alox 2500 plus, 50-50 Alox, then Felix.
The results;
Carnauba Red shot the best with 4 shots in 1/2" and one I called because I seen less black under the dot and the darn thing went off. I found a few tiny flakes of lead.
2500 Plus gave me a wide group of 2-7/16" and I found a lot of lead in the bore.
50-50 shot into 2-1/16" with 3 in 3/4" and two low that I blame on leading because there was a lot in the full length of the barrel.
Felix gave the standard 4 in 1-1/8 with one a little low. A few tiny flakes of lead.
I cleaned the barrel good between lubes and shot one fouling shot at 100 yd's.
So I would list the lubes in this order;
Carnauba Red
Felix
50-50
Alox 2500 plus.
Darn, can't post a picture!

[44man]

Try again, OK, got it

[44man]

Now the target I shot the foulers at, at 100 yd's. The bottom three were CR, 50-50 and Felix. 1-7/8". The one high left is Alox 2500 plus. I am not happy with this lube.

[44man]

It looks like I will be buying Carnauba red when I get some coins. I would suggest Glenn make this the main lube and forget the others unless some guys like them. It was strange getting so much leading with my gas checked boolit and Alox. I never found more then a few tiny flakes before, but that is Alox! In every trial I ever done with the Lee stuff, my barrel would be full of lead. The stuff might work with light loads but I remember years ago, the .38 special wadcutters with factory alox lube would fill the whole gun with lead, inside and out.
My next test will be the BPCR lubes. I need over half a day for it. I also have to put the scope back on the rifle.
Anyway, it shows you fellas that lube is as important for accuracy as any other thing you do when loading.

[StarMetal]

44man,

I'll have to disagree with you some. Now for what you are doing you are probably 100 percent right about the lubes you're using. I've been shooting 50/50 alox/beeswax for almost 40 years. As I and Buckshot have found out and also Buckshot will tell you,that lube is pretty dang good. It will also take rifle bullets to the high 2000's fps without leading. Currently I've been playing around with the 30 Luger, and we're talking about lead loads that exceed the 32 Magnum in velocity. Absolutely no scientifically measureable leading. None of my handguns lead with the 50/50 lube. Accuracy, you saw what the 45 Colt does at 100 yards, and I posted my 30 Luger shooting into 3/4 inch or less at 25 yards (and that's not off a bench either). I concur that Glens Red lube is probably alittle better. Not to run Glen down or you, 50/50 lube is 50/50 lube, whether Glen makes it, me, or Javelina. I find it hard to believe that Javelina has an inexhaustible supply of the 2138F Alox since it's not being used anymore. I got some 350 Alox from a forum member and I make the same exact lube that Glen does. I'll probably buy more 350 from Glen when I run out. He does have excellent prices on his lubes and I reccomend for anyone that don't make their own to buy from Glen. Don't sell 50/50 lube short and I know your revolver doesn't seem to like it, all of mine do and so do my rifles.

Joe

[felix]

Joe, add some carnauba to what you have and compare the two in rifles. Keep increasing the percentage of carnauba to the point where accuracy starts to fail, and then back off a smite. Now compare the two, one with carnauba to one without carnauba. Now, compare both in a hot revolter. ... felix

[44man]

Well, star, as you can see by the targets, 50-50 didn't shoot real bad. I have a drawer full of various brands and have tried it for years in all kinds of guns. Most of the time it works OK but I have always had leading, some serious and some very light. I have used it in a few rifles where leading was so light it didn't hurt anything.
My .44 and .45 that I have now absolutely do not lead at all with Felix and I have shot 500 or 600 rounds without cleaning. A few other brands of factory stuff has worked in these guns but they do lead with 50-50. Lee liquid Alox turns the guns into abortions even with 3 coats. They shoot OK with 50-50 but start to get flyers when the lead builds up.
Don't ask why because I don't know. You know I can fit boolits to the gun and find the best alloy.
What I am saying is that Glenn has come up with such a perfect lube with Carnauba Red that there is no need for anything else unless requested. The stuff turned my head and you know how picky I am.

[felix]

44man, melt all those lubes in the drawer together and then add some carnauba. Actually, melt the carnauba first, and then add the drawer full of rejects. You won't need excessive heat, or cooking at all, when you have no castor oil being mixed with petro oil. Do not add either to your new mix. If you need to thin it down, choose an eating oil from the kitchen. Olive, canola, etc. ... felix

[44man]

Felix, sounds like a good way to use up all of that lube, thanks.
I wanted to give my opinion of Lar's lubes and felt obligated to not embelish anything and report what happened. Others might have good luck with the other lubes because every gun, boolit, alloy and powder choice might give different results. I only tried them in one gun and still have the .44 and .45 to test after I finish the BPCR.
I know Glenn has sent test lubes to others and I have yet to see any detailed posting or results from anyone else, just a few words here and there. He was good enough to send his labor of love out and I wish all of those that received it would get on here and show what their results were. Some might have gotten different results and we should all see them.
As Star showed, some have good results with Alox even though I never have had real good results. I am only one, where are the rest of you? I think we owe it to Glenn!

[Dale53]

44Man;
I am sure impressed with your CR target at fifty yards! If you had three five shot groups in a row like that I would be even more impressed.

I bought a batch of CR from Glenn but haven't yet used it. I have been trying to use up previous lube. However, you sure have me thinking that maybe I ought to just "junk" that other lube. We'll see what happens in the near future. Sounds really good to me...

You address one thing that bothers the heck out of me when people discuss lube - all I hear is that "It doesn't lead a bit". What I really want to hear and see is, "Man, does this "stuff" really increase accuracy at XXXX velocity. "They all go in one hole at XXX velocity". THAT's what I want to hear (typically, if they are shooting well, they are not leading).

Thanks for the report. I am especially impressed with ol' "Wrist Breaker's" fine shooting. It is not easy to do well when you have "lightning and thunder" in your fist.

Dale53

[StarMetal]

Dale,

That's what I basically said about alox/beeswax lubes I'm using at the moment. I mean isn't a 30 Luger shooting into 3/4 at 25 yards basically leaning off a retaining wall good enough? This doesn't even take in the fact how my tuned Gold Cups shoot. That Smith 25 in 45 colt that shot the 100 yard group that 44 man has seen, shoots pretty ragged holes at 25 yards with alox.

Joe

[felix]

Yep, Glenn is the man! Like you say, he should keep his lube choices to a minimum until we can come up with even a better one THAT IS EASY TO MAKE. It is hard to beat carnauba in our lube formulations for its intent, unless we go to polymers. And, that can be very touchy in terms of long term results, like barrel buildup which might be next to impossible to clean out. Think welded on plastic. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Felix, think Acetone, like in cleaning out shotguns, that use plastic shotwads. Then there were the smaller caliber sabot rounds from Remington.

Joe

[felix]

Joe, the newer "grease" polymers are currently playing around with extending the urea molecule. MEK, Acetone, etc. barely touch the stuff! I am sure there are solvents that will take these polymers down into smaller pieces, but which ones that won't hurt us is the question. I don't think we need the urea based lubes just yet. There's gotta' be somethin' else, but I've yet to find it. However, I am not looking that hard, either. Just don't feel the urgency. ... felix

[44man]

Dale, small amounts of lead in the bore do no harm as long as it stays constant and doesn't build up. The problem I have always had with alox is that the lead got thicker in the bore as more shots were fired. I would start with good groups and they would go south until the barrel was cleaned. The stuff stinks and smokes too. If it is smoking, it is burning. I don't want my lube to burn in the bore!
I have shot many, many, many sub 1" groups at 50 yd's with my revolvers and have almost hit the 1" mark at 100 yd's. (1-1/4".) I can tell right away when something is not right. I believe I can shoot more groups like that in a row but have to cast a bunch of boolits, my supply has dwindled.

[Dale53]

44man;
>>>I believe I can shoot more groups like that in a row<<<

Don't doubt you for a minute.

Dale53

[Bucks Owin]

44man, your tests confirm my own thoughts regarding Carnuba Red. I've tried a lot of different lubes, and some are really good as far as leading goes, some are less messy to use, but none seem to give the groups that CR does. I wish it wasn't quite so "sticky" but maybe it needs to be to perform like it does....

Carnuba Red.......#1 for accuracy!
(And the price is right too)

Dennis

BTW, nice shooting!

[44man]

STICKY is GOOOOD!

[Ken O]

I have went though three sticks of CR lube in the .45acp. I cant comment on accurcy because I shoot the action games like IDPA, ISPC, and SC. So I'm not that concerned about MOA accurcy, but am about leading. So far its been the best lube I've used.

[lar45]

I have went though three sticks of CR lube in the .45acp. I cant comment on accurcy because I shoot the action games like IDPA, ISPC, and SC. So I'm not that concerned about MOA accurcy, but am about leading. So far its been the best lube I've used.

Ken, has the smoke been noticibly less with the CR than with others, or the Alox lubes?

Thanks for the honest opinions and testing. It is great to get results from different shooters. I have had many shooters e-mail me with great results of the 50-50 in smokless loads for BP rifles.

The Alox 2500+ has some of the CR ingredients added to the standard 50-50.

I just picked up a CZ 527(mini Mauser) in 223, so I'm hopeing to get to the range and try the CR in the 223. It shoots FMJs pretty good and the factory single set trigger is really nice.