WC846 - From Israeli Pull Down?

[Old Sarge]

Hi All
Has anyone used any of this?

WC846 - From Israeli Pull Down Cross with BLC-2 or WIN 748 (from Hi-Tech)

I picked some up and would like to try it for 308 win using a 147grn FMJ pull down bullets and CCI # 34 Mil Spc primers. I will be shooting it out of a M1A and a Fal. I know I need to start low and work my way up. But how low should I start? The low end for BLC(2) in my manual is somting like 40grns. If I back off of that by 10% I would be starting at 36grns. Or can I start closer to the 40grns in the manual? I will be getting a Chronograph and using that as I work my way up to a workable load.

Any advice?
Thanks
Old Sarge

[NuJudge]

Before you do anything, I would ask Hi-Tech if they have any feedback from users on your particular lot number. Also, don't do anything until you have the chronograph to tell you what the results are.

With surplus bulk powders, when in doubt choose the lower number.

CDD

[wiljen]

Assume it is the fastest possible lot until it proves otherwise. I would start with H335 Data Minus 10% and work up from that.

[Sur5er]

Be careful with the pull down 147gr FMJ. Some are resized fron 7.62X54 Russian. They are steel jacket, copper washed but the real issue is the length of the bearing surface. I worked up to 45gr of WC846T with the 147gr and it worked just fine in the Rem 700BDL. My .308 rebarreled M1 was an altogether different matter. The the case head expanded to the point that it failed to extract and the primers were badly cratered. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD! I used the 190gr BTSP powder weight of 42gr with the 147gr and my M1 was much happier! The resized 147gr had just about the same bearing surface as the 190 so that's the key for me.

[Shiloh]

Assume it is the fastest possible lot until it proves otherwise. I would start with H335 Data Minus 10% and work up from that.

Good advice here.

A chronograph is a huge plus when working up loads with surplus powder.
When surplus powder varieties were plentiful, cheap, and easily available, vendors had knowledge of how it performed. Jeff Bartlett still does.

Now however, Surplus powder are odd lots here and there. Nothing like the the 10 varieties that Bartlett almost always had in stock during the surplus powder glory days. A chronograph is almost a must. My Chrony chronograph has been an invaluable addition to my reloading
records.

Shiloh

[Lloyd Smale]

this last batch i got burns about half way between 335 and blc2. For the most part i use top end 335 data for it.

[JKH]

I have jugs of WC846 and WC846T that I got form Jeff Bartlett, both labels state to use BLC-2 start data - 10%, they mean it too!

My first .308 loads I used data that was accepted as a standard load for this powder but with earlier lots, I used 44 grains under USGI 147grn FMJ's, shooing it in my FAL, AR10 and M14 showed significant pressure, some primer pockets opened enough for the primers to fall out!
So, I decided to acually read the label and went by the recomended load parameters, my final load is 41.6grns and shoots well with no pressure signs.

Jeff told me the "T" (which he says is for tracer as this lot was supposedly pulled down from tracer rounds that required hotter flame to ignite) is hotter/faster than standard 846, I did a lot of research though and found US Army small arms ammunition guides that indicate the powder used for ball and for tracers is the same powder, no special "tracer" formulation was ever made or used.

Lloyd, H335 data?

At any rate, start with the BLC-2 -10% start loads and you shoud be fine, this is good powder and has produced some very accurte loads with Federal GMM cases and 168grn SMK's in my AR10(T), I will be using it in a 28" bull barreled FN Mauser in .30-06 and possibly with cast lead in some loads for my M14, FAL and Garand's.

Jeff

[wiljen]

Jeff - my experience parallels Lloyd's so it probably is a different lot # than what you have. My 846 loaded with Bl-c2 data would be catastrophic. I start with H335 data and rarely venture above the max published loads with H335.

As an example of surplus powder lot to lot variation. A friend of mine locally and I both bought WCC844 at the same time. Mine was from Pats, his was from Bartlett. My lot is almost H322 speed and if loaded using H335 data would be extremely hot. I suspect my lot was probably a reject lot as it was not pulldown and probably failed to make the cut as it was too fast. My friends lot is very close to bl-c2 or H380 and if loaded to h335 specs under performs pretty dramatically. Same Name, Same purchase date (Within a week), same instructions on Cross reference to H335, very very different results.

Assuming the data provided by Jeff, Pat, Hi-tech, or anyone else is 100% correct when dealing with surplus powder is a good way to get hurt and ruin guns.

My advice to anyone wanting to use them, always assume they are the fastest thing possible until they prove otherwise and by prove I mean they go slower over a chronograph than a canister lot of the powder in question. Yes, buy the canister lot and see what it does in your gun, going by printed data alone doesn't make it safe. If your gun shoots H335 200fps slower than the book lists and you load surplus to the book listing, you are now 200fps over the safe working pressure. 1 lbs of canister grade powder to check the burn rate of 16 lbs of surplus is a small price to pay to be safe.

[milkman-06]

Wiljen,
Excellent line of reasoning, thank you.
Russ N
in SW Missouri
near Freistatt

[evan price]

A buddy of mine at Knob Creek said the current lot of Israeli pulldown WC846 is hot, as in, start with 20% low numbers hot.