StarMetal
No harsh words from me.
That is a very welcomed change and i do appreciate it, especially after your comments on the Mex M98 in your Brazil rifle thread.I think you are getting there.
I will have to say that these groups are much better than usually gotten with similar powder charges at the same velocity level using other techniques (dacron filler for example).I think I may be able to explain why my velocity is higher with the 4350. In these new recent post here you stated my rifle as a M38. It's not the shorter barreled M38. It's the plain old longer barrel M96. The longer barrel should pick up some more velocity, not sure how much.
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH...............how is that simple fact apparently slipped by us It is entirely brobable the extra 5.6" of barrel can account for the increase in velocity. My M96 is in excellent condition so I'm not going to D&T or make any other mods to it. However I will run 10 shots of the 31 gr AA4350 load through over the M35P to check the velocity. I've know doubt it will be close to what yours is doing.
Two things I ignore on 45 2.1's advice on loading. One, I don't follow his loading to a dime's thickness of the body/shoulder junction. You found that out with the 3100 load. I did too. Larry there's only a few powders you can "almost" fill that case up with and not have the very high velocity and pressure and those are 860 and 5010 surplus.
Knowing that is no doubt why that little voice in the back of my head was screaming about "too much powder".So that theory I find wrong...and that's not from you. Now go back and look at the loads and targets I've posted so far. You will see a patter and that is the powder charges seem to hover in the 30 some grain bracket. I feel anymore then that and it's too much. Since the original sweet spot with the 4350 I've added Reloader 22, N160, and IMR 7828 to my list of powder. All three of them showed a sweet spot, but particularly the 7828. I'm really beginning to like that powder and it shows promise in other calibers as well.
I have a question, how many rifles have you tested so far?
3 rifles, all with M38 barrels. Am I right thinking two? I know the M38, but what's the barrel length on your MexSwede?
It is 22.5" as I had to cut it back and recrown as the crown and rifling was damaged about .75" into the bore. It shoots every bit as good as my scout M38 with the standard 23.5" barrel. Both will shoot sub moa with jacket bullets.
Another area I differ from 45 2.1 is bullet tension and crimp type. I don't necessarily set my tension, I use a .266 expander and my bullets are .268. According to 45 2.1 I don't run as close clearance in the neck thickness as he does either. My groove on my Swede is .267 so thus why I size my bullets at .268. My rifle can chamber a bullet such sized.
You are correct in my first sweet spot load of 4350 I did lube my bullets with LBT Blue. Since then, and duplicating the 4350 load, my lube has been my own beeswax, Castor oil, Ivory soap lube. After all the shooting I've done I'm beginning to think beeswax/alox may suffice.
I've gotten excellent results with Javelina and Lars 50/50 lubes up through 2500 fps in other cartridges.
If your groove on your MexSwede is .267 (not saying it is, just theorizing) I cannot see ever getting HV and accuracy from it if the bullet has to be sized to .266.
I don't have a .277 sizer but a lead slugg driven into the throat leade mesures .266 - .267 (depends on where it is measured in the throat and at groove depth. A .268 bullet will not enter the last .4 of the throat but a .266 sized bullet is a snug fit. I sure would like to see how it would perform if it could shoot a .268 bullet.
All of the bullets in this test (Test 2) were sized .268". The problem was they were not seated to the leade and the first two driving bands were sized down during chambering by the throat.
On OAL I don't shoot for that. I go for two things. One I seat according to how the cartridge loads into the rifle.
Exactly what i did as reported in the test. When closing my bolt down I feel for slight resistance of the bullet nose seating into the throat cone. I do not cam down the bolt to force the nose into the rifling leade.
As explained, a .268 bullet will not reach the leade of any of the 3 M38s I have. I have not really tried the .268 bullets in my M96. I know most M96s have a little looser headspace than M38s. Perhaps the tolerances were tightened up on M38s. I will dig the M96 out of the back of my gun safe and try a .268 bullet in it and report back.
Now I named that there were two things I differ from 45 2.1 in. The second one is my crimp. He uses some kind of LEE crimper (a rifle taper crimp) that LEE doesn't make anymore. I use the LEE Factory Crimp. Now 45 2.1 stated why he doesn't like the LFCD and that is because it mars, indents, ruin, however you wish to look at it, the case mouth. Yes it does leave a mark there but I've found that does no damage and I will loose a case to a neck split long before that crimp mark does any harm.
My modified Hornady seating die will give a gentle roll crimp, about half way between a roll and taper crimp. I also have used Lee's Factory crimp die with other cartridges and cast bullets without problems.
There is more then one way to skin a cat and I've proved that with my loads that differ in many areas to 45 2.1. One biggie is the use of 4350 powder which he go on me about. So when you do get that little voice in the back of your head do follow it and do go outside the set parameters.
Ain't that the truth. Based on the revelation of you using a M96 and me using the M38 I am no longer attempting 2380 fps. I belive the 2050 fps +/- range with my shorter barreled M38 will have me duplicating your velocity of 2380 in the M96. Thus my test parameters have changed from what is mention in the test comments. I'll work with 30.5 to 31.5 gr of AA4350 now and focus on changing lube and bullet hardness. I also have RL19, RL 22, and H4831SC to work with. I also have some original surplus H4831 I might try but since it is not generally found anymore that might be a useless experiment.
Larry next time you're in my area you are stopping by and you are shooting my rifle and my loads.
I'll hold you to that Joe
Larry Gibson