Dilemma?

[d_striker]

I just got a new lee tl401-175-swc six banger. I just made some sample boolits to see what they were dropping at.

They dropped at .4055-.406 and weighed 185 grains. I'm waiting on a new xdm so I don't know what diameter the barrel is.

So what do you think? Should I just send the mold back to Lee and get a new one or should I keep it? I'm not too concerned about the weight as much as the diameter of the boolits. It's past the advetised tolerances. I don't want to size them.

UPDATE 12/30/09

UPDATE:

I sent this mold back to Lee on Dec. 4th. I emailed them the other day to check the status. This is the email I received back from them:

Mr. d_striker:

I have checked with the mold specialist about your mold. When our 90433 Mold goes through Quality Control, we have been discovering that they are out of spec. We are currently researching why they are out of spec and are working on fixing the problem. Because of this, I am unable to give you an approximate time as to when a new mold will be available for you. We are sorry for this inconvenience. Please feel free to email at any time for as much of an update as we can provide you.

Thank You,
Lee Precision

UPDATE 2/10/10

So it's been a little while now and I still haven't gotten a replacement. I emailed them to see when I might receive a new mold and this is what they sent me:

"In checking with the repair department, they are currently working on your mold and we will get it out to you as soon as we can."

Hopefully this is true and I'll get a mold soon. I would have just bought another one but I was worried that I'd just run into the same problem. It's kind of a bummer as I crank out the majority of my casting/reloading during Dec, Jan, Feb. Now I'll be playing catchup to get my competition loading done in this caliber. Oh well.

[Buckshot]

..............If it was me I'd wait for the pistol to arrive. More importantly then slugging the barrel but also seeing if it will chamber a round with an unsized slug of that size. You might find you're better off with it. If you send it back and THEN get your pistol, you might be wishing for the mould back. Bigger is easier to deal with then too small.

................Buckshot

[Wayne Smith]

Ditto to Buckshot - it's not a dilemma until you have your barrel and know the facts. Then it may or may not be a dilemma. Now it's just impatience

[troy7769]

I am a noob, and I don't know alot about casting but...... my 2 banger did the same thing dropping .405-.408 and I learned (from the great people on this board) that I was casting to cold, mold and melt. When I tried the next time I got it all hotter and they were droping at .401-.402 I am using WW only. you may know this already, but I thought if you didn't it might help. Troy

[yondering]

I have a double cavity mold for the same boolit, that drops at .411". Sizing it back down to .401" almost completely wipes out the tumble lube grooves, leaving a smooth sided boolit. I figure sizing down with your boolit will wipe out the grooves about halfway.

It would be extremely unlikely to find that your XDM has a bore larger than .400-.401". Certainly not .404-.405, which is what your boolit is suited for. Possible, but not likely. Tolerances are pretty good on those guns and the bore would have to be grossly oversized for your boolit to be "right".

I'd send the mold back.

[d_striker]

I have a double cavity mold for the same boolit, that drops at .411". Sizing it back down to .401" almost completely wipes out the tumble lube grooves, leaving a smooth sided boolit. I figure sizing down with your boolit will wipe out the grooves about halfway.

It would be extremely unlikely to find that your XDM has a bore larger than .400-.401". Certainly not .404-.405, which is what your boolit is suited for. Possible, but not likely. Tolerances are pretty good on those guns and the bore would have to be grossly oversized for your boolit to be "right".

I'd send the mold back.

I just loaded up some dummy rounds using lee dies. First, I had to bell the case to the max just to get the base of the bullet in the case mouth. Then the bullets were being swaged by the brass as they were being seated. I pulled about 8 after seating and as you mentioned, the micro grooves were just about gone. They were swaged to about .402" on the micro groove portion and were still .406" at the leading portion that did not enter the case mouth.

Also, the case mouth still had a little bell in it. I don't have a case gauge for .40 yet so I don't knw for sure if they would chamber but I don't think thy would have. I ran another 8 as mentioned above but also put them through a lee fcd as I do my other cast loads. I had the fcd set so it wasn't even putting a crimp on the case. I only wanted to remove the remaining bell.

After running through the fcd, I pulled the boolts and they were sized down even further to .400 to .401.

I forgot to mention that the bases of most of the boolits were mangled pretty good from seating.

[xr650]

My .40 Lee FCD always swages my boolits too small.
I quit using it. I got a Lee Crimp Die and it works well. It does not resize the case like the FCD does. Cheaper too.

Just a thought. When you are casting are only holding the mould handles and not the sprue handle. Squeezing the sprue handle with the mould handles will let the mould hold open a little.

[d_striker]

My .40 Lee FCD always swages my boolits too small.
I quit using it. I got a Lee Crimp Die and it works well. It does not resize the case like the FCD does. Cheaper too.

Just a thought. When you are casting are only holding the mould handles and not the sprue handle. Squeezing the sprue handle with the mould handles will let the mould hold open a little.

I only hold the mold handles. That's good info to know though.

[yondering]

I pulled about 8 after seating and as you mentioned, the micro grooves were just about gone. They were swaged to about .402" on the micro groove portion ...

Keep in mind too, that once those enter the barrel, they will be sized down to barrel dimensions (most likely .400") so the grooves really will be gone.

Also, your alloy may be too soft if they are being sized down that much by the brass.

After running through the fcd, I pulled the boolts and they were sized down even further to .400 to .401.

No offense to anyone who likes the FCD, but throw that piece of poo away! You do not want your crimp die to size down your boolits, but that's exactly what the Lee pistol FCD does. (The rifle dies are different, and are a good product). Sizing the boolit down once it's in the case results in lost neck tension, as the brass has more springback than the boolit. There's also no guarantee that the boolit gets sized evenly.

[d_striker]

Keep in mind too, that once those enter the barrel, they will be sized down to barrel dimensions (most likely .400") so the grooves really will be gone.

Also, your alloy may be too soft if they are being sized down that much by the brass.



No offense to anyone who likes the FCD, but throw that piece of poo away! You do not want your crimp die to size down your boolits, but that's exactly what the Lee pistol FCD does. (The rifle dies are different, and are a good product). Sizing the boolit down once it's in the case results in lost neck tension, as the brass has more springback than the boolit. There's also no guarantee that the boolit gets sized evenly.

how do I remove any remaining bell in the case mouth after seating?

[mpmarty]

Use a standard taper crimp die to remove the bell.
Check your alloy it may be you're casting more of a pure lead than you need which will I think produce fat heavy boolits. Also as said already raise the temperature a bit too. I have the same mold six banger 170gr .401 tc tl and it throws perfect .4015 to 402 boolits that work just fine in my 10mm pistols up to around 1100 fps without leading when tumble lubed, sized in LEE 401 sizer and then tumble lubed again.

[d_striker]

Use a standard taper crimp die to remove the bell.
Check your alloy it may be you're casting more of a pure lead than you need which will I think produce fat heavy boolits. Also as said already raise the temperature a bit too. I have the same mold six banger 170gr .401 tc tl and it throws perfect .4015 to 402 boolits that work just fine in my 10mm pistols up to around 1100 fps without leading when tumble lubed, sized in LEE 401 sizer and then tumble lubed again.

my alloy was 50/50 ww/pure at 750 degrees. Bullets came out frosty. Heat was not an issue. Maybe I'll try straight ww

[d_striker]

I just cranked out some more samples. I used straight ww. Air dropped and water dropped at 750 degrees.

The water quenched boolits still dropped at .4055".

[JSnover]

What's your alloy? Lee states their molds will drop to the nominal size plus .003" IF you use 10-1 lead-tin. Not that you have to use 10-1, just that's what they use as a reference metal

[d_striker]

What's your alloy? Lee states their molds will drop to the nominal size plus .003" IF you use 10-1 lead-tin. Not that you have to use 10-1, just that's what they use as a reference metal

First sample batch was 50/50 ww/pure lead...

Second sample batch was pure ww.

[yondering]

how do I remove any remaining bell in the case mouth after seating?

Like mpmarty said, just a standard taper crimp die. Most 40 S&W seating dies will have a taper crimp built into them. You don't need much crimp, just enough to remove the bell and straighten out the case. Any more than that can be detrimental to accuracy.

50/50 ww/pure is too soft for the .40, regardless of size, except for real light loads. That's partly why your cases were able to size down the boolits during seating. The .40 runs at relatively high pressure, and needs a harder alloy. Straight ww, air cooled, will work fine, especially for light loads. For full power .40 loads water dropped ww (WDWW) gives better accuracy with less leading.

[HammerMTB]

I just got a new lee tl401-175-swc six banger. I just made some sample boolits to see what they were dropping at.

They dropped at .4055-.406 and weighed 185 grains. I'm waiting on a new xdm so I don't know what diameter the barrel is.

So what do you think? Should I just send the mold back to Lee and get a new one or should I keep it? I'm not too concerned about the weight as much as the diameter of the boolits. It's past the advetised tolerances. I don't want to size them.

I've been watching this thread for a day. I planned to cast some 40 TCs from my 6-banger.
I did that today. Mine is a conventional lube broove boolit, but here's what I measured today:
As cast of WW is .402-.403 and runs 177-178 grains. I have removed the BB from mine so that adds a bit, but I would guess a very small bit.
I size 'em .401, run base first thru a LEE sizer, no lube. They come out dead on .401. I polished the sizer to .401 myself, so it would give me what I wanted.
When your XDM comes in, you could slug it, but it'll be .401 or mighty close. You might want to check your mic against another just to be sure, cause that is WAY off. Lee gaurantees its moulds within .001, so if it is making boolits that far off, I'd can it for a new one.
Unless you're really sold on the TL design, you might see if they'll trade you for a lube groove version. It is more versatile if nothing else.

[mooman76]

d striker
If you wait a week and remeasure your bullets they will grow approximately .001 in diameter.

[d_striker]

Mold is getting shipped back today...Thanks for all of the responses.

[d_striker]

UPDATE:

I sent this mold back to Lee on Dec. 4th. I emailed them the other day to check the status. This is the email I received back from them:

Mr. d_striker:

I have checked with the mold specialist about your mold. When our 90433 Mold goes through Quality Control, we have been discovering that they are out of spec. We are currently researching why they are out of spec and are working on fixing the problem. Because of this, I am unable to give you an approximate time as to when a new mold will be available for you. We are sorry for this inconvenience. Please feel free to email at any time for as much of an update as we can provide you.

Thank You,
Lee Precision