Decisions, decisions. Getting a new mill

[housedad]

Well, I have moved everything from my old gunsmithing shop into my garage at home. Ecept the Metal lathe and the large Fort Knox safe. My Mother (80 yrs old) died earlier this year, and I had my shop on her property. Here estate is being liquidated.

I cannot believe I got it all in the garage. (Garage is 24' X 36') The amount of my hand and power tools from the house and shop I brought over is staggering. For example, I now have TWO 7500 and one 3000 watt generators now. Two table saws, 3 Milwalkee magnum drills, and on, and on and on.

Anyway, I have determined a location for my Metal lathe, a 12X36 Enco, and it looks like there will be a good corner to put a new mill. I sold the one I had from the shop several years ago, a Enco Mill Drill. It was a peice of **** for gunwork, and I ended up using my Palmgren milling attachement for the lathe most of the time until I got a full size mill. But I sold that one too. Too small a table at 9X36.

Now, I want to get a new mill with a 49" table. I have looked around at the offerings of used bridgeports around here, and they are all worn out junk. Could be rebuilt and rescraped, but I ain't getting any younger, and I have a lot of projects filling my time. So, it will be a new mill.

I've got it pretty much narrowed to either a Birmingham 9X49 with a 3 phase belt head (Tiawan Head) or a Grizzly G9902 (single phase). They are both near the same price delivered when similarly equipped. If I went with the Birmingham 3 phase, I would get a VFD for it. Trying for the best bang for the buck.

I will be going up to the Grizzly showroom on Friday to see theirs, but I have nowhere to see a Birmingham.

So now to the question. Anyone out there with knowledge about the two mills that could be helpful in making a decision? (Yes, I have been to Practical Machinist and CNC Zone.) I'm going to post this at other forum sites, but I wanted to get the first wisdom from ya'll.

Grizzly G9902

Birmingham BPS 1649C3


Thanks,

Bion

[dragonrider]

I think I would go with the Grizzly, it comes with a power feed and shipping is free and unless you are already using a converter definately get the single phase unit.

[deltaenterprizes]

I have the Grizzly and it is OK. You will need to adjust the slack in the X and Y feed screws and clean paint off the dials on the feed screws also.
While you are there ask them why the quill lock handle id such a piece of ****. It is injection molded potmetal and the handle is hollow and broke off whole making a part and I had to use a pair of pliers to work the lock until I got finished and from what I can tell the replacement is not any better. I did a down and dirty repair and it will last longer than the original.
There could be a little more travel to give more slack in the belt when changing speeds, but that can be modified easily.

[Doughty]

housedad,

You might take a look at www.bixbymachine.com . I bought a mill from them this spring. After shopping around, I felt they had the best mill for the money. Their web site is not great, but give them a call and tell them what you want.

[John Taylor]

I have the Birmingham BPS 1649C3. It has been good to me and has had some heavy use. The power feed motor started making noise because I was using it with a roll die ( way to much pressure on the motor). I paid $4500 for it almost 10 years ago, looks like a very good price on it now. In ten years it has developed about .020 backlash on the table feed. I have never adjusted the nut to tighten it up and with the amount of force doing roll die work I'm amazed .
The chrome started coming off one of the handles and it was replaced free. I use a home made phase converter for three different machines. Sometimes it will kick the beaker if I run all three at the same time.
The only draw back is the "Z" screw will hit the floor when the table is all the way down, had to set the machine on leveling screws and jack it up 2". I'm only 5'8" and it is a strain to reach the top of the machine now.

[housedad]

Thanks for the info everyone.

An update:


Well, I did go to Grizzly, and I learned a few things.
Comparing a Chinese vs Tiawan machine side to side for fit, finish, and value, the Tiawan machine (The "precision" mill) that Grizzly has wins hands down.

Much more money, yes, but Meehanite castings, nicer machined dovetailes (only by eye and only in the look of edge finishes.. (I did no measuring) overall fit better, nicer looking paint, much nicer leadscrew feel. The heads are quite a bit better in the design and implementation of the controls and parts. The Tiawan has controls much more like a Bridgeport, where the Chinese heads were simpler and obviously made to be easier to make. Calling it as I see it, The chinese heads had obvious signs that the controls needed ham handed fitting and filing to get them into place, and cheaper levers.

The castings on both machines looked good, nice corners, smooth, even surfaces, no sags, or other obvious problems. If you have ever seen a Harbor mill, you know what I mean. Grizzly paint is pretty thick, so it is harder to evaluate to my eyes.


That said, after spending Earlier this week to look at other machines from Harbor freight, The Grizzly Chinese machines are definately a better deal in fit and finish than Harbor.

The chinese had equivilant tables and dials to the Tiawan machines, except fo the turcite on the ways of the Tiawan units.

Overall, the Grizzly machines are decent machines and I really do not think they are overpriced at all. They fit a price point with better quality than many other runners out there, and you get the Grizzly guarantee and warranty. Back that up with great service and full parts availability, and you have a good value for the price paid. Are they the Equivilant of a Tiawan? No, but they are good SERVICABLE machines. I don't think anyone that buys one should feel they made a bad decision. For that kind of support and a better machine you get, The costs have to be a bit more.

I also had a chance to inspect another machine this week at a different place. A new Tiawanese mill called the GMC. It is selling (elsewhere)at a really low price for a fully Tiawanese mill, about $5000 delivered (non residential) , and I was curious to see what they cut out to save the money. The answer: Nothing that I could tell at all. That one was compared to a Birmingham Tiawanese in another part of the building. It was the same in all respects that I could tell except for paint color. I mean Identical. Just as nice as the Grizzly Tiawwan machine. Again, alas, no measuring tools.

From what I have found out, it is the same mill with a different name and paint. Birmingham buys them from the factory and sells them here. GMC is a new company doing the same thing and buying fom the same factory. Apparently they are trying to grab market share and lowballing the mills.


I will definately be going with the GMC mill unless I find out something bad from anyone.

The only question now is do I want the the 9" x 49" table unit at 2300 lbs and $5000 or the 10"X54" table unit at 3300 lbs or for $6000?

While you are there ask them why the quill lock handle id such a piece of ****. It is injection molded potmetal and the handle is hollow and broke off whole making a part and I had to use a pair of pliers to work the lock

At least it is pot metal. The ones I saw had several plastic handles.

Bion

[elk hunter]

I've had two 9x42 mills in the past and now have a 10x54. I really like the longer table as generally I can still use my rotary table or indexer when I need them without taking the vise off. Plus, if you have ever wanted to make a tapered octagon barrel the extra length is really helpful. And there is nothing like extra mass to dampen vibration. Just food for thought.

[housedad]

Update:


My order goes in tomorrow!

The GMC 9X49 will be on the last leg of it's long journey from Tiawan.

Finally I will have a semi-decent mill to do things with. I've waited for a lot of years.

My garage floor pretty much decided about the size. I couldn't put more weight on it.