Lube Hardness

[BigDaddie]

Gday all,

I made my first every batch of lube to trial with my rifle boolits today.

It is the 50/50 paraffin/beeswax (1lb each) with the STP oil treatment (2tbs). I threw in some orange candle making dye to make it look nicer

I pan lubed the boolits in the silicone tray and let it harden for an hour. When I tried to punch out the boolits, they would not come out. It seemed like the lube had become too hard. There was no semblance of 'plasticity' about the lube...it was more brittle if anything. I had to break the boolits out and then re-melt the lube. I decided to throw in some vaseline and repeated the process. This time, I left it about 30mins b4 punching them out. It seemed to be a much more flexible lube this time.

Can someone explain which ingredients make the lube softer? I know that paraffin make it harder.

I'm going to do some load development when I head down the farm in a few weeks so I'll get to see how it performs then.

[wiljen]

Paraffin makes it harder and doesn't add any lubricity. Pretty much anything that does add lubricity also changes the consistency and makes it softer. 1/2 Paraffin sounds like way too much to me. I'd start with mostly Beeswax and only add paraffin until you got the desired consistency if you must have a harder lube. 50/50 Beeswax and Alox 350 has worked well for years and it contains only roughly 7% micro crystalline wax as a hardener. Other formula's (Felix) use no paraffin at all and use only small amounts of Carnuaba wax in addition to beeswax.

The thing to watch is vaseline is petrolatum (basically a hydrocarbon wax) as is paraffin and this stuff would be awful for black powder lube as oil based lubes and BP don't mix.

My normal advice when making lube is stay away from Toilet bowl rings, petrolatum wax, paraffin, and any other petroleum based wax or oil. They just seem to cause more problem than they solve. I've played with all the above and either got leading, smoking, too soft, or some other undesirable effect.

[BigDaddie]

OK. Does the same thing go for smokeless rifle use?

[cbrick]

BigDaddie, here is an article on what a lube needs to do, enough info to get you pointed in the right direction.

Lubricating Cast Bullets

Rick

[wiljen]

Smokeless wont cause the problems with petroleum products that BP does. It will smoke like crazy but doesn't create fouling that takes a jack hammer to remove like BP will.

[lylejb]

Too much paraffin.

I'm pan lubing some .357 pistol bullets, and after several "trial and error" experiances, here's what i'm using:

started with 1/3 lb beeswax, added equal volume Johnson paste wax. JPW is paraffin and carnuba waxes plus solvents. Heat till melted, and steam-like vapor starts to come off. This is the solvent comming out of the JPW. Added 2 ounces Lee liquid alox, stir well. remove from heat, allow to cool for several minutes, but not yet hardening. added 1 ounce lanolin. stir well allow to cool.

The lanolin helped alot with keeping the lube stuck in the groove. This is a medium hardness lube.

To lube, i warm slowly, till melted. be carefull not to overheat as lanolin scorches easily. Place boolits in lube, swirl melted lube around slightly to help warm the boolits. remove from heat, let cool about 20 min. I use a home made kake kutter tube to cut the boolits out, then size.

This works out well for me. i tried several versions / recipes and all the others were either too hard or too soft. The hardness can be adjusted somewhat by how long you cook out the solvents from the JPW.

[Gunslinger]

That sounds more complicated than need be!

I use beeswax, parafin and vaseline 1/3 of each. I just warm it in a pot, and add color - over and done with.

It doesn't need to be heated in the sizer and works well for everything I've tried...

[Springfield]

I'm sorry, but paraffin causing a terrible tar like buildup is an old wives tale. I have used it for years in my BP lube and my guns clean with soapy water with no problem at all. Something about it being super refined or some such nonsense. I like to use a little as it seems to give the lube a bit more body compared to using just beeswax. And BigDaddie, back when I didn't have a sizer and panlubed I found that 50/50 beeswax and Crisco/vegetable shortening worked just fine. Let the bullets set until the mix is just barely warm and the bullets should push out easily. Let it go too far and it gets too hard. Like casting, timing is important.

[wiljen]

I would beg to differ on the wives tale as I tried it and proved it to myself early on in my muzzleloaders where it made a bloody mess to clean up. Maybe a little bit is ok, but alot will make a mess in my experience.

[Springfield]

I run about 20% paraffin, don't know what you call a lot but that seems like a decent amount to me. Might depend on what you mix it with.

[wiljen]

Could very well be, I just chose to avoid it as it was warned against and I found out why.

[BigDaddie]

BigDaddie, here is an article on what a lube needs to do, enough info to get you pointed in the right direction.

Lubricating Cast Bullets

Rick

Thanks Mate!

Thanks to the other posters. I am learning so much here. I added in some more beeswax so I'll see how it performs when I get to test it in about 2 weeks. I'll try to put some of the Felix formula together too for a comparison. The rifle is an enfield 303 using the old 16gns of 2400 behind the lee boolit.

[vincewarde]

Wow I am using toilet bowl rings as my source of beeswax. It has worked great so far. (40% Alox, 40% beeswax, 20% paraffin.) What should I be worried about?

[wiljen]

Wow I am using toilet bowl rings as my source of beeswax. It has worked great so far. (40% Alox, 40% beeswax, 20% paraffin.) What should I be worried about?

Bowl rings used to be beeswax, now most are petrolatum- I'd make sure I read the box before assuming it is beeswax as I haven't seen one that was in quite some years now.

[alor_swe]

This sounds like a harder variant of "California Saeco Green" (2lb bees wax, 2lb paraffin and 1lb stp). The main problem I have found is if you add too much paraffin wax the lube gets brittle and have a hard time staying in the lube groves. Add just a touch of stp, it should get the lube softer and stay in the lube groves better, about 5-8% stp to a 50/50 mix of bees wax and paraffin is my recommendation (never tried it in pan-lubing though). A higher mix than 10% stp might work in the winter but during the summer the lube gets too soft IMHO.

[jonk]

I've never found any reason to use paraffin in any lube. If I would, it would be a hardening agent only. While I generally stick to felix lube for most smokeless applications, in your formula the STP is the only real lube; the beeswax is a carrier and paraffin a hardener.

I'd try just beeswax and stp and add paraffin to get the desired stiffness.

I've never had much luck pan lubing myself.

[lar45]

Wow I am using toilet bowl rings as my source of beeswax. It has worked great so far. (40% Alox, 40% beeswax, 20% paraffin.) What should I be worried about?

Toilet bowl rings used to be beeswax, but now are a petrolem product. You could e-mail the mfr. for clarification if you want.

Every lube I tried with bowl wax has been very harsh on my hands, so I tossed them all in the garbage.

I keep a log of all of my lube variations with a sample of the lube in a ziplock bag.

[Char-Gar]

Big Daddy... When asking questions about bullet lube, please tell if it is to be used for black powder or smokless. Often the answers would be quite different.

[JSnover]

I found that 50/50 beeswax and Crisco/vegetable shortening worked just fine. Let the bullets set until the mix is just barely warm and the bullets should push out easily. Let it go too far and it gets too hard. Like casting, timing is important.

+1!
I fought with rock hard lube cakes for months until The Light came on. Beeswax/crisco is easy to make, works perfect for my low speed, big boolits and they pop right out of the pan if I pull them while they're still warm.

[vincewarde]

Bowl rings used to be beeswax, now most are petrolatum- I'd make sure I read the box before assuming it is beeswax as I haven't seen one that was in quite some years now.

But it sure looks like Beeswax. Smells and feels like it too. What ever is in it, it is working great at 1000fps out of my .357. Zero leading, good accuracy. Ditto my 45-70 up to 1200fps. I tumble lube anything above that.

These were the cheapest Gunk brand from Lowes. Made in USA. About a buck a piece.

Does anyone know what they are made of?

Thanks!