Annealing Brass?

[Dragoon 45]

I am sure this has been covered before, but I can't find it.

On some of my .40-65 cases, I have discovered BP fouling on the outside of the case neck. I understand this is a sign of the case neck being too hard. All of the cases are Starline brass and most have been fired only once.

Now for my question, I understand I need to anneal the cases but am not sure what the best way to do it is. Is heating the case neck cherry red with a torch and then quenching them quickly with water the best method? Or is there a better method?

Thanks in advance.

[NickSS]

I have done it woth a tourch for years just as you said. However I recently started to use the lead method. I dip the neck into my lead pot and hold it there until the lead flows off the neck without sticking and then drop the case into water. Works a little faster than the torch method and is more even in results.

[cajun shooter]

Dragoon 45, you should always anneal your cases. The Starline cases are built tough and therefore are thick and need to anneal. I started to learn about annealing cases in 1972 from my mentor. He showed me the pan of water method. You put your cases in a pan of water to where the water is about half way up on the case. You do this in a slightly dark room(lights off, blinds open). When the case neck starts to turn red you tip it over into the water. Well I did it that way until just this past month. When you want to improve you watch the winners not losers. Kenny Wasserburger did a post on his annealing process and I listened. He uses a tool that may be purchased from Jim Terry at Gentleman Jims Wyoming supply. He then allows the brass to air cool. This process makes more sense to me as the water method cools the brass too fast and work hardens it and defeats the purpose of the anneal.

[felix]

I have never noticed a hardening effect after water dropping brass, at least not enough to matter. Major problem is the consistency of the anneal case to case. A specific machine to do the job would be immensely superior. ... felix

[Jon K]

He then allows the brass to air cool. This process makes more sense to me as the water method cools the brass too fast and work hardens it and defeats the purpose of the anneal.

Water dropping does not harden the brass..........just the opposite.
Heat and water quenching will harden ferrrous metals, not brass & copper.

Jon

[montana_charlie]

Now for my question, I understand I need to anneal the cases but am not sure what the best way to do it is. Is heating the case neck cherry red with a torch and then quenching them quickly with water the best method?

No.
Brass anneals at around 650 degrees, and the color which indicates that temperature is 'blue'. When the blue turns to 'brown' you should already be moving the torch away.

If you go far enough to see 'red' you are going too far...and 'cherry red' is 'ruined'.

Quenching stops the anneal from moving closer to the head, and cools them down quicker, but it doesn't change the 'hardness' of brass.
CM

[felix]

CM is correct. Time and temperature must be used as a product to determine the amount of anneal, provided the minimum temperature is met. In other words, if using the lead pot method, time must be increased substantially. ... felix

[Shiloh]

I put my brass, primer removed, into a tuna can of water. Enough water to cover half the case or a bit more. turn off some of the lights, and heat with a propane or jewelers torch. when you start to see the blue color, move the torch away and knock the case over. Repeat with a new case.

Practice on scrap brass first. A 650 TempilStik is good at first to see how the process goes. Once familiar with how it's working you don't need it. Get a few more pieces of scrap brass after you think you have it down so you're sure.

Shiloh

[HEAD0001]

If you want to use the lead dipping method then at what temperature do you set the pot at?? And how long do you leave the case in the lead?? Specifics would be great. Tom.

[HEAD0001]

Dragoon 45, you should always anneal your cases. The Starline cases are built tough and therefore are thick and need to anneal. I started to learn about annealing cases in 1972 from my mentor. He showed me the pan of water method. You put your cases in a pan of water to where the water is about half way up on the case. You do this in a slightly dark room(lights off, blinds open). When the case neck starts to turn red you tip it over into the water. Well I did it that way until just this past month. When you want to improve you watch the winners not losers. Kenny Wasserburger did a post on his annealing process and I listened. He uses a tool that may be purchased from Jim Terry at Gentleman Jims Wyoming supply. He then allows the brass to air cool. This process makes more sense to me as the water method cools the brass too fast and work hardens it and defeats the purpose of the anneal.

Any links?? I tried a search but did not obtain anything. However I could have easily done it wrong, and I am going to try again?? I also did a search on the "Jim's" store but I found nothing. Thanks, Tom.

[DLCTEX]

I use my cordless drill to anneal brass by using a 3/8 socket adapter and a deep socket that holds the case loosely. Spin the case while holding the case somewhat upright and heat until the brass darkens, then dump it in a bucket of water. Goes pretty fast and uniformly heats the necks.

[montana_charlie]

Any links?? I tried a search but did not obtain anything. However I could have easily done it wrong, and I am going to try again?? I also did a search on the "Jim's" store but I found nothing. Thanks, Tom.

The annealer Kenny uses is made by Ken Light.
http://www.kenlightmfg.com/products.html

Here is a general information article on annealing, and it features the Ken Light machine.
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

Here is another machine, which is similar...
http://www.zephyrdynamics.com/page3.html

For those who read about 'blue color', torches, and rotating case necks in a flame to do the annealing, here is a video.

The guy explains that he used a screwdriver to spin the case manually because a drill would make too much noise to narrate the video. But, he shows where a power tool gets you a nicer dividing line...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbRdJqyFDGY

Notice that this is not a 'frantic' process.
With the torch adjusted for a low flame, and working slowly and calmly, you can tease the right color into the brass, then get it out of the flame.

Yeah, you can do it faster with a higher setting, and that might seem reasonable if you have a lot to do. But, a roaring torch causes fast reaction, and color can change so quick you miss the right point.

CM

[Dragoon 45]

Thank You for all the information.

[cajun shooter]

http://www.wyomingbpcr.net/gentlemanjim/index.html The machine that MC says is used by Kenny is not what he told me about. Kenny directed me to Jim Terry not Ken Light. The tool sold by Terry sells for $25 not $300 and something. I will find and post the correct site for his store. try the above for contacting Jim. He works all over and is only home late in week so be patient. He does this as a favor for other shooters and not as a main source of income.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I use the small spinner sold by Gentleman Jim Aka Jimbo Terry of Rawlins WY. I air cool as this seems to give a more milder and consistant anneal. If your cases are just a few degrees different in temp they will be different in anneal when you drop them into the water. Air cooling seems to bring a more consistant annealing in my findings. This tidbit was passed on to me some years ago by Butch Ulsher of Butte MT, who holds more records in NRA Longrange that just about anyone.

I just spent the afternoon yesterday with Dora the 25 lb Sharps at the local range doing some target work. The rifle shot 2 groups in fading light that were about 1.5 inches apart 3 shots in one hole in the upper group and 3 shots in one hole in the lower group. This was at 200 yards btw. I was most impressed. Brass has a distinct line where the anneal stops when using this spinner and torch method. Changing light or My Grip not sure what but will continue testing I think the barrel now at about 250 rounds has finally broken in. This very heavy barrel sharps has a choke that can be felt when cleaning the rifle. Rifle weighs right at 23.69#'s with the MVA Scope mounted on it.

And this was with Paper Patched bullets Dora has never seen a Nakid Lead bullet.

The Lunger
Kenny Wasserburger

[montana_charlie]

http://www.wyomingbpcr.net/gentlemanjim/index.html The machine that MC says is used by Kenny is not what he told me about. Kenny directed me to Jim Terry not Ken Light. The tool sold by Terry sells for $25 not $300 and something.

My mistake.
I must have Kenny confused with somebody else who anneals frequently...possibly Kelley O. Roos(?).

Gentleman Jim's little 'spinner' can be replaced with a deep well socket big enough to take the head of the case in question, and shallow enough to expose the mouth.

Of course, you need a drive extension for that socket which can be chucked in a drill...

CM

[4060MAY]

homemade by cabintree
http://castingstuff.com/case_annealing.htm