Small Game Loads in the .45/70

[beagle]

I have always read that early soldiers on the western plains used their trapdoors for both small game and deer, buffalo and antelope sized game to suplement their beans, hardtack and "sowbelly" rations they were issued.

This practice has alway intrigued me.

I have my reservations as to a full bore load from a .45/70 used on either a rabbit or sage hen. I know it's been done but looks like an overkill to me.

I also know that round balls were used and at one time, Lyman marketed a "collar button" design for a .45/70 and other large bore .45s.

Now, I've messed with round balls in the .45/70. One, two and three ball loads and could see where they would be useful.

I've "armed" myself with a sigle cavity "collar button" mould (Lymans #457130) and intend to so some testing along the lines of a small game load.

Now, I know this will be with smokeless and not "holy black" but this is the way I'll go.

I often wonder several things. Did early soldiers have access to collar button type moulds and round ball moulds? I know that reloading outfits were issued to the troop/company sized units in those days. I wonder just how much loading went on in those days and I also wonder if loads of this type were ever used.

From reading, it appears that the Army was blessed with huge quantities of arsenal loaded .45/70 ammo to the point where they couldn't shoot it all up and much of the outdated ammo was given to buffalo hunters who used every drop as that was money to them.

Any comments along these lines would be appreciated./beagle

[Lloyd Smale]

ive played alot with a single round ball or even a lighter normal bullet like a 340 with 3 grains of bullseye

[45 2.1]

John-
PM me your e-mail address and i'll send you a good trapdoor type small game load. I used it for a couple of summers/falls shooting squirrels.

The Army had access to a lot of Civil War pistol ammo packets which they broke down and used to reload fired cases for practice and for pot hunting.

[JeffinNZ]

How about paper patching a .45ACP bullet? I bet it would work great.

[Thumbcocker]

I have also read that they issued shot loads for .45-70's for foraging.

[lifeon2]

4521 could I get that load data as well?

[Catshooter]

<--------- See my user name.

I can tell you from experience that a .45 cast 200 grain boolit moving at about 1000 feet will poke a finger-sized hole right through small game.




Cat

[mroliver77]

I have a 452423 single cav that drops boolits like .455. I beagled it to drop .458 and use a soft alloy. They shoot very well in the .45/70 over a small charge of unique or Bulls Eye. Very easy on evrything and fun fun fun. I havent had a chance to put one through a critter yet.
Jay

[Leftoverdj]

I've messed with this some. Best results were with .490 RB forced through a .460 Lee sizer. I seated them flush over light charges of the very fast pistol powders and smeared a little lube around the case mouth. Squirrel head accuracy at 25 yards, hopeless at 50 yards. Tried some .45 sabots with .38 bullets and got nowhere.

I've a notion that patched .454 RBs might do OK, but did not have any on hand and am not curious enough to buy any. Would like to hear the results if anyone else tries it.

[DLCTEX]

I have a mold for the Ruger Old Army that casts .457 that I'll have to play with.

[JDL]

I've used a .45 cal. muzzleloader for squirrel hunting with good results so I sought a similar set up with my .45-70. I tried some .457" balls with a light load of Red Dot and while the accuracy at close range wasn't too bad, it left a lot of unburned powder in the bore. Bullseye may give better results but, I haven't got a round tuit yet.
JDL

[BABore]

My 462-210 boolits with 45 2.1's load. Does sub inch at 50 yards.

[44man]

HEE, HEE, I love it! Big guns for little animals is fun but better make head shots if you want meat. Them boolits are as big as what you shoot.
Many years ago I hunted squirrels with a .36 flintlock. I HAD to make head shots. No way with a gray but I killed a pile of fox squirrels because they held still long enough. Some were 100 feet at the top of huge hickory trees. I had to lay on my back to shoot straight up.
Never forget the time I was pheasant hunting and came upon a sitting rabbit. Pulled my .44 and aimed for the end of his nose. I did get to eat the back legs!
I read about "barking" squirrels one time. I got the chance one day and shot the tree under the poor thing with my .44 mag. Took off all the hair on it's belly, stunned it so I kept trying each time he moved. Made a mess out of it so I had to actually shoot it to kill it. I got a little meat. Never again, too cruel.
Always wanted to shoot some round balls, etc from my 45-70 and .45. So keep it coming, sounds like fun.

[Icorps1970]

Must be very careful with low density loading of ANY smokeless powder.
Light loads of smokeless as are a major cause of damage to BP cartridge guns and sometimes the shooter.

Dan

[45 2.1]

I read about "barking" squirrels one time. I got the chance one day and shot the tree under the poor thing with my .44 mag. Took off all the hair on it's belly, stunned it so I kept trying each time he moved. Made a mess out of it so I had to actually shoot it to kill it. I got a little meat. Never again, too cruel.
Always wanted to shoot some round balls, etc from my 45-70 and .45. So keep it coming, sounds like fun.

Your supposed to shoot them under the head area. I know that works fine as i've killed quite a few that way with a 45-70. They come out of the tree with a little blood coming out of their eyes, ears and mouth. I shoot them thru the ribcage also with no loss of edible meat.

[BABore]

Must be very careful with low density loading of ANY smokeless powder.
Light loads of smokeless as are a major cause of damage to BP cartridge guns and sometimes the shooter.

Dan

There are methods around this. I learned this from 45 2.1 and will not post it on the open forum. I'll leave that up to him.

[StarMetal]

HEE, HEE, I love it! Big guns for little animals is fun but better make head shots if you want meat. Them boolits are as big as what you shoot.
Many years ago I hunted squirrels with a .36 flintlock. I HAD to make head shots. No way with a gray but I killed a pile of fox squirrels because they held still long enough. Some were 100 feet at the top of huge hickory trees. I had to lay on my back to shoot straight up.
Never forget the time I was pheasant hunting and came upon a sitting rabbit. Pulled my .44 and aimed for the end of his nose. I did get to eat the back legs!
I read about "barking" squirrels one time. I got the chance one day and shot the tree under the poor thing with my .44 mag. Took off all the hair on it's belly, stunned it so I kept trying each time he moved. Made a mess out of it so I had to actually shoot it to kill it. I got a little meat. Never again, too cruel.
Always wanted to shoot some round balls, etc from my 45-70 and .45. So keep it coming, sounds like fun.

I shot a squirrel with my 45 Colt Marlin Cowboy rifle using a RCBS 255 gr SWC over 9 grs of Unique. Shot him dead center through the ribs and all it did was put a 45 cal hole through him and didn't ruin anything.

Joe

[JesterGrin_1]

This info I found on the OT Web sight.

45-70 Government 300gr FPbb
PR: WLR CM: Rem TempF: 64 OAL: 2.515"
PT PW Vel SD GS
TiteGroup 7.0 908 12.5 3.0
8.0 992 12.3 7
9.0 1071 16.2 4
10.0 1143 9.2 2.2
11.0 1227 8.7 1.73

I have also thought of some type of light boolit to shoot from a 45-70 and also looking for info on the LEE Mould .457 for the Ruger Old Army Black Powder to use in the 45-70.

[44man]

There are methods around this. I learned this from 45 2.1 and will not post it on the open forum. I'll leave that up to him.

Very true and is why I never fooled with it. Easier and safer to use a smaller caliber.

[NHlever]

HEE, HEE, I love it! Big guns for little animals is fun but better make head shots if you want meat. Them boolits are as big as what you shoot.
Many years ago I hunted squirrels with a .36 flintlock. I HAD to make head shots. No way with a gray but I killed a pile of fox squirrels because they held still long enough. Some were 100 feet at the top of huge hickory trees. I had to lay on my back to shoot straight up.
Never forget the time I was pheasant hunting and came upon a sitting rabbit. Pulled my .44 and aimed for the end of his nose. I did get to eat the back legs!
I read about "barking" squirrels one time. I got the chance one day and shot the tree under the poor thing with my .44 mag. Took off all the hair on it's belly, stunned it so I kept trying each time he moved. Made a mess out of it so I had to actually shoot it to kill it. I got a little meat. Never again, too cruel.
Always wanted to shoot some round balls, etc from my 45-70 and .45. So keep it coming, sounds like fun.

I was woodchuck hunting, roaming the small fields here in NH with my "to be" brother in law years ago. I was using my Marlin 30-30 as a two shot with 110 hp's. As we crossed a very small field, a woodchuck suddenly started running right down the top of the stone wall bordering the field. Since there was a good hill behind the wall, I swung, and fired at him. The chuck flipped up in the air, and came down right there. When I picked up the chuck, there was a sliver of stone driven right up through his neck. Turning to Jay, I casually said "Whew! for a minute there I thought I had hit him. Around here we like to "bark" them so there is more meat to eat." He was from PA, and we were testing each other a bit while he dated my sister. You just gotta have some fun sometimes!