Lyman 310 Swap thread

[trooperdan]

I was the one asking, both the CMR and DA are stamped with caliber so I am certain they are correct and Froggie confirmed the expander (.515) and Seating screw as likely correct. I don't have correct handles but .50-70 ws mused with a #3 tool at first. Thanks for the help!
TD

[jrmartin1964]

Strange as it may seem, the .50-70 did actually survive into the 310 era, being last listed in Lyman's Ideal Handbook No.35 (published in April of 1948). Die number was 114, priming chamber was 24. At this early stage of the 310 tool the adapter was not yet necessary, as the handles were still caliber-specific - just like its No.3 (and No.10) predecessors - but lacked the priming station of the earlier tools. Many years later, with the resurgence of interest in some of the old-time cartridges, Lyman re-introduced 310 dies for .50-70 (and others). It was then that an adapter for .50-70 became necessary, and it was numbered 18. These later dies are caliber-marked, the old die numbering system having been abandoned after the publication of Handbook No.40 in 1955.

Jim

[Littlewolf]

thanks jrmartin I was wondering about the era change myself and hadn't gotten that new in the Ideal manuals yet, I'm somewhere in the 19teens

[Green Frog]

Well, the blind hog bumped his head into an oak tree and found another acorn! I’ve put my set of 25-20 Ss dies for the 310 tool away somewhere and now that I need them…
So if course I did the logical thing and did an advanced search on fleaBay. I didn’t find a set yet, but lo and behold I found a newly listed Buy It Now for a Small set of Universal Steel Handles… in the marked box! Price was reasonable and free shipping. I sure hope it lives up to the ad, and I should know in a week.
Of course I’ve still gotta figure out what I did with my 25-20 SS dies, or make other arrangements, but one step at a time!
Froggie

[Littlewolf]

i'm sure their there froggie

[Eddie Southgate]

I figured you would eventually find a set . Congratulations

[Green Frog]

Lightning struck twice in one night. (To mix my metaphors.) After I had found the deal on the handle set, I decided to just go down to the basement and spend as long as I could stand looking for the box of dies I absolutely knew was down there somewhere. I determined I had to do it tonight because a set of 25-20 R dies (nicely boxed but for a TL Jr) is in an auction closing in about 24 hours. I could have made them work if I had to, but would have had to spend another $50+ I really shouldn’t have needed to. While I was searching I found a cigar box with two like new 25-20 SS FL sizing dies (hammer-in type) as well as a few more pieces of original old ammo. All in all, a very successful evening!
BTW, if anyone wants the link to that repeater set, it’s in all the boxes and the dies look new. Drop me a PM and I’ll check here first thing in the AM… the auction closes tomorrow night, IIRC.
Happity, hoppity Froggie


PS Aftergoing back and looking at the dark pictures in the ad more carefully, the handles, which the seller proclaimed were “Forged Tool Steel” have a sort of rough surface and a LYMAN stamp on them… I’m beginning to wonder whether I hopped too fast.

[Eddie Southgate]

Can you say Aluminum ?

[square butte]

I have come to the conclusion that if it is poorly photographed, or in poor lighting , the caution light should be on. If I ask the seller a question and get no response, or a lame response, I am probably gonna pass - Unless .......... it's - The One - Buy it Now

[Green Frog]

The tale continues… Knowing as I do that the base diameter of the 25-20 SS case and the 32 S&W L case were within a smidge of identical, in desperation I pulled out my steel handles in the latter caliber, along with a sample round of the former. The round extends so far through the spigot of the Small handles that it’s obvious I’ll need the Large ones instead! I had a little nagging thought in the back of my head that this was how things would go. Of course I have that spare Large steel set, as related previously. I even have an adaptor ring for 32 S&W a cousin made up for me on his lathe many years ago. I had what I needed all along. This is what happens when I try to think ahead without remembering what’s behind.

As stated elsewhere, I have an Ideal Perfection adjustable mould bought years ago as a curiosity. It was marked simply “25-20” in large digits and is adjustable from about 45 to 95 grain bullet weight. As I recall, the man who sold it to me said he had owned a Sharps Borchardt chambered in 25-20 SS, so the circle seems to now be complete.

If the handles on order live up to advertisement, I have a set for future need or trade. If not, I’ll see about a return and go from there. At worst I’ve wasted about $50 on handles I have no immediate use for.

Note to Self: If a cartridge is intended for rifles and had to be totally redesigned for pistols and short action rifles such as the 1892 Winchester, it should be expected to require the “Large” handles like any other rifle cartridges, Duoh! (Insert face palm here.)

Froggie

[Green Frog]

While I was digging for the 25-20 dies (looking @310 boxes) I found a couple of surprises. First, a 9mm Luger die set I had forgotten I had, and at first glance look complete, and second a boxed set of 32 S&W dies which seem complete minus the expander die and plug. I’ll keep looking through the mess as time permits, but I needed one for the set I put together last year and that was a challenge. The newly found boxed set also lacked the adaptor ring and I know I don’t have one of those so that’s why I’m putting out a Bat Signal for a #3 or a #12 adaptor ring, the former for the 32 set and the latter for the 25-20 set. If somebody has an extra 313 expander laying around, that wouldn’t hurt, either.
Froggie

[Littlewolf]

if anybody has a 32-20 full length resizer hand type or in 32 colt new police / 32 S&W long or 32 S&W short,
I could use one or all three.

[Eddie Southgate]

While I was digging for the 25-20 dies (looking @310 boxes) I found a couple of surprises. First, a 9mm Luger die set I had forgotten I had, and at first glance look complete, and second a boxed set of 32 S&W dies which seem complete minus the expander die and plug. I’ll keep looking through the mess as time permits, but I needed one for the set I put together last year and that was a challenge. The newly found boxed set also lacked the adaptor ring and I know I don’t have one of those so that’s why I’m putting out a Bat Signal for a #3 or a #12 adaptor ring, the former for the 32 set and the latter for the 25-20 set. If somebody has an extra 313 expander laying around, that wouldn’t hurt, either.
Froggie

The .25-20 , .32-20 , .218 Bee and .32 S&W all use the #3 adapter rings , the #12 is a .22 Lovell so you must mean the Stevens set not a .25-20 WCF set ? How is the .32 S&W box marked ? Just S&W or was it a Long set ?

[Green Frog]

I’m upstairs now, but working from memory, the markings on the box don’t include the “L” reference. Further, the MR die and the seating die are marked 22, for what that’s worth.
I was aware of the applications for the adaptor rings I mentioned, and yes for whatever reason, both the 32 S&W and the 25-20 SS sets lack the appropriate adaptor rings. The one that a favorite cousin (now deceased) made up on his lathe about 40 years ago is actually a smidge oversized for either.
Bear in mind that the cartridge bases of these two cartridges are within 10-20 thousandths of each other, so I can get by with the same adaptor rings and PCs (and usually shell holders) interchangeably.
So the hunt continues, but FWIW, I can get by with what I’ve got, but I’m still “polishing around the edges”. I can do that instead of working!
Froggie

[Green Frog]

Well, my newly purchased handles showed up, and as feared they were aluminum alloy. that’s the bad news, but upon contacting the seller, I was assured I could return them for refund.
However, they’re like new, in a good early orange box with steel tabbed corners, and equipped with a #15 adaptor ring. Total cost with tax and shipping was $46.32, so I’m thinking of keeping it to have in reserve if I need to put together a “modern” package for somebody who wants to load something like 9mm or 38 Spl.
I haven’t bought a set of aluminum handles for several years… is this price totally unreasonable?
Froggie

[Green Frog]

PS to Last: According to the list friend Littlewolf just posted elsewhere on this page, the 22 Lovell (which is a necked down 25-20 SS case) is apparently loadable on “Small” handles. The adventure continues?
Froggie

[Eddie Southgate]

In the condition you stated , that price is reasonable with the nice box. Really clean boxes go for $15-$25 so I's say you did ok. I put nice aluminum handles with any cartridge that was added to the list after the mid to late 50's . .243 and 6mm/.244 would be examples as would .358 Winchester.

[Green Frog]

Thanks Eddie. That is pretty close to what I expected to hear. I’ve got a (small) boxed 310 die set in 30 carbine for which I have no plans, short or long term, so with the adaptor that came in the deal, I might be well served to bundle all of this together and let the whole thing find a home with a collector/user who will appreciate it. It is all good stuff in very nice condition, so I shouldn’t have much trouble placing it.
Not a solicitation to sell yet, but would anyone here be interested if I do this, or alternately how about a 9mm and/or 38 Spl? I believe I can easily put any of these combinations together around this set of small, alloy handles.
Froggie

[Noah Zark]

Is it me, or do a growing number of "auction site" sellers seem to think that it is totally acceptable to just toss 310 or TLJ dies in any die set or handle set box and call it "complete" for what is written on the box as to the intended cartridge? Too many ads lead me to conclude that a seemingly growing number of sellers think "dies is dies" and "box 'em up and list 'em." When one asks to confirm the die numbers, the seller responds with "dunno nuffin" if they don't just ghost you. I'm not talking about the handful of regular, experienced sellers.

Sorry, just gotta vent.

Noah