On the fence for .45 colt on deer

[Doughty]

Gianni, it's weird but you stopped reading too soon.

MT code 87-6-401 says that you may not "(c) while hunting, use any device or mechanism devised to silence, muffle, or minimize the report of any firearm, whether the device or mechanism is operated from or attached to any firearm. This subsection (1)(c) does not prohibit the use of a device or mechanism registered with the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives to silence, muffle, or minimize the report of a firearm when hunting wildlife."

[Hamish]

Ok, am I seeing things, or does the statute prohibit any device, and then expressly say it does not prohibit any device?

Big Brother Doublespeak perfected.

[Larry Gibson]

Ok, am I seeing things, or does the statute prohibit any device, and then expressly say it does not prohibit any device?

Big Brother Doublespeak perfected.

Basically it says it's okay ["does not prohibit"] to use a suppressor/silencer that is legally registered with ATF.

Probably a good idea, though not required, to have a copy of the stamp affixed ATF form on you if hunting in Montana with such. Does ATF put a tax stamp on the forms now that no tax is paid?

[cpaspr]

Isn't it a requirement to have your tax-stamped paperwork with you whenever you're using an NFA firearm or device?

[Larry Gibson]

Isn't it a requirement to have your tax-stamped paperwork with you whenever you're using an NFA firearm or device?

Not that I'm aware of. You just are required to present the approved paperwork [a clear digital or physical copy is acceptable] to federal authorities if requested. While I have copies in my vehicles I haven't carried a copy on me for 40+ years. I've never been asked to show the NFA paperwork. A couple game officers expressed interest in my M21 system with a Sionics suppressor back in the '80s when I was calling coyotes in SE Oregon. They didn't ask for the NFA paperwork, didn't even ask to see my hunting license, they only asked if they could shoot it. They shared a cup of coffee with me and advised of several ranches that would like coyote control.......

[kaiser]

I've taken a fair amount of deer with the .45 Colt out of a 20" BBL 1873 Uberti to have enough confidence in the cartridge traveling 1200 to 1300fps at the muzzle for any deer size game within 125 yards. Beyond that distance the game gets pretty blurry and the "irons" are not precise enough for a sure shot. A 255gr. lead slug has plenty of penetrating power to go through any deer beyond that range, but the "loopy" trajectory is not your "friend" for precise bullet placement. My .02

[NITROTRIP]

You need a slow powder to use barrel length to full advantage. This load was given to me years ago by Mr Outpost75 and John Linebaugh.
It was also in older Alliant manuals for the 45colt and 44/40. 21grains Reloder-7 255gr in the colt and 210gr in the 44WCF
and also used in 38/40 with 180-200gn. This is for all modern toggle link rifles. Basicly to the bottom of the bullet for a full
case, and also to keep the bullet without crimp groove from getting pushed into the case. This was pressure tested by Alliant
and I think someone also on this sight. It has a smoother pressure rise than compressed FFg blackpowder and gives about
a 10% increase in velocity. This is for rifle length barrels. Look it up here and other places before use. I think it also is in the
LEE book. I think you will like it. We are talking "only modern" toggle link rifles here, I have 11 mix and match in these 3
cartridges. I use Rel-7 in all to the bullet base not compressed. 1860-1866 and 1873 Uberty's. First one 36yrs ago. Started
using this load 2008 and never looked back in all of them. So far I have used 29pounds of Rel-7 in these 11 rifles with no
stress. My main hunting load uses the Lee 300gr cast wheel weights powder coated sized .452 Rel-7 to bullet base. About
1100fps +or- depending on rifle, 255gr Lee about 1250fps. Hunt mostly Texas pig 80-300+lbs. 300lb Boar is a lot tougher
than a 450lb Elk, and big mule deer like so much pudding. Under 1400fps Lbs/ft means nothing momentum is king.
Example, 55gr 22-250 factory and 45/70govt 500gr blackpowder loads are about the same Lbs/Ft at 100yrds. would you
use a 22-250 on a 2000lb Bison? Just ask the Bison how that turned out.
80% of my large game hunting has been with these toggle link rifles with this load in the last 15-20yrs. Elk and deer
mostly ranch cull tags here in New Mexico mostly around hay in the winter. Then about 80 Texas varmint pigs. Longest
shot 133yds 145lb pig 1873 24" rifle 38/40 with Rel-7 load semi buckhorn sight, using "Belt Buckle hold" for us old
military guy's.
My grandfather WWI vet and my father WWII vet started teaching me to shoot rifle early age 5. My Mother said to
start with the Red Ryder, my grandfather said "I'm to old to cock that thing 75 times" my dad said" I know better"
and he ain't big enough, 22lr it was. I still can hear my grandfather "why hide what you want to hit?" you never cover
your target with your front sight ever! Remember belt buckle hold. I am now 66 and still mostly use open sights,
semi buckhorn and peep. We will stick with 45colt 300gr Rel-7 load, 24 inch barrel with Uberty semi buckhorn sight.
1100fps Rainbow.
I sight with a cheap paper plate, 9 inch. 50yards front sight full in small bottom notch, top of front sight on bottom
edge of the plate. Think pumpkin on a post. Around a 1-1/2 inch group average center of plate 4-1/2 inches above
the top of the front sight, you can see the whole pop can not hidden by the front sight. Now 100yards. Front sight
round bead centered in the "circle" the semi buckhorn makes, with the paper plate on top of the front sight, think soft
ball on a post. Your 4 inch average group will now be centered in the top 1/2 of the plate 7 inches above the top of
the front sight. Take your deer chest and set it on top of your front sight it goes into the front shoulder/chest and
you are able to see your target and not hide it. The point here is you CAN'T HIT what you CAN'T SEE. Now go shoot
at a 8inch steel plate, paint one side and leave the other side bare. The reason is your sight picture will look different
when you flip the plate around. Go shoot, shoot more, shoot again. Did I mention go shooting? Can you judge 50 yards
from 100 yards, If not get a range finder and practice until you can. Use those 2 sight pictures and move your plate
from 25 to 100 plus yards and practice. The first sight picture will work from hair to 70yrds the second from 70-110.
Again you can't hit what you can't see. The 45colt will do the job as far as you can get a nice sight picture.
I shot a cow Elk in the chest coming straight at me at 67yrds with this Lee 300gr load and it broke the pelvis. It weighed
395lbs, that was over 4ft of elk, 'pudding'
For those who try to shoot behind the front sight give this a try, you just might like it.

Happy 4th everyone,
Let's all make some noise,
Take Care
Rick

[white eagle]

Geese don't post anything about using RL-7 in a 45 Colt some on this board will kick and scream that you are building a pipe bomb
I posted about using that powder and the know it all's told me, they knew I was a idiot for using that powder
little do they know, however, and I mean very little

[NITROTRIP]

Geese don't post anything about using RL-7 in a 45 Colt some on this board will kick and scream that you are building a pipe bomb
I posted about using that powder and the know it all's told me, they knew I was a idiot for using that powder
little do they know, however, and I mean very little

Good post. I think they lump it in with hard to light ball powder 296/H110 That in the last few years went from
a published load window of 8% down to 4%. In some mag cases 1-1/2 grain min to max. Faster stick powders
light easy. 5744 was the most common stick powder used in the big black powder cases, after SR4759 not made
now. I used it until I found out about Rel-7, cut group size in 1/2 and a bit faster in the longer barrel's. Modern
Reloading by Richard Lee has a good write up about these powders. Good PSI test of operating window example
is on page 140. Yes it is 30-30, before we jump of the chair look at the tested Psi window. 150 gr cast 14.0gr min
@11,000psi H4198 to max 23gr@35,700. H4198/IMR4198/A2015/Rel-7 all share the same burn rate slot. Rel-7
was tested by Alliant at full case in 44-40 and 45colt. Rel-7 just so happens that a full case gives the same Psi
as black powder in these pistol cases with a smoother rise in Psi as tested. That is why I said to re-search what
I use before you use it yourself.
Thank You White Eagle for pointing this out.

Rick

[tscopeland]

You need a slow powder to use barrel length to full advantage. This load was given to me years ago by Mr Outpost75 and John Linebaugh.
It was also in older Alliant manuals for the 45colt and 44/40. 21grains Reloder-7 255gr in the colt and 210gr in the 44WCF
and also used in 38/40 with 180-200gn. This is for all modern toggle link rifles. Basicly to the bottom of the bullet for a full
case, and also to keep the bullet without crimp groove from getting pushed into the case. This was pressure tested by Alliant
and I think someone also on this sight. It has a smoother pressure rise than compressed FFg blackpowder and gives about
a 10% increase in velocity. This is for rifle length barrels. Look it up here and other places before use. I think it also is in the
LEE book. I think you will like it. We are talking "only modern" toggle link rifles here, I have 11 mix and match in these 3
cartridges. I use Rel-7 in all to the bullet base not compressed. 1860-1866 and 1873 Uberty's. First one 36yrs ago. Started
using this load 2008 and never looked back in all of them. So far I have used 29pounds of Rel-7 in these 11 rifles with no
stress. My main hunting load uses the Lee 300gr cast wheel weights powder coated sized .452 Rel-7 to bullet base. About
1100fps +or- depending on rifle, 255gr Lee about 1250fps. Hunt mostly Texas pig 80-300+lbs. 300lb Boar is a lot tougher
than a 450lb Elk, and big mule deer like so much pudding. Under 1400fps Lbs/ft means nothing momentum is king.
Example, 55gr 22-250 factory and 45/70govt 500gr blackpowder loads are about the same Lbs/Ft at 100yrds. would you
use a 22-250 on a 2000lb Bison? Just ask the Bison how that turned out.
80% of my large game hunting has been with these toggle link rifles with this load in the last 15-20yrs. Elk and deer
mostly ranch cull tags here in New Mexico mostly around hay in the winter. Then about 80 Texas varmint pigs. Longest
shot 133yds 145lb pig 1873 24" rifle 38/40 with Rel-7 load semi buckhorn sight, using "Belt Buckle hold" for us old
military guy's.
My grandfather WWI vet and my father WWII vet started teaching me to shoot rifle early age 5. My Mother said to
start with the Red Ryder, my grandfather said "I'm to old to cock that thing 75 times" my dad said" I know better"
and he ain't big enough, 22lr it was. I still can hear my grandfather "why hide what you want to hit?" you never cover
your target with your front sight ever! Remember belt buckle hold. I am now 66 and still mostly use open sights,
semi buckhorn and peep. We will stick with 45colt 300gr Rel-7 load, 24 inch barrel with Uberty semi buckhorn sight.
1100fps Rainbow.
I sight with a cheap paper plate, 9 inch. 50yards front sight full in small bottom notch, top of front sight on bottom
edge of the plate. Think pumpkin on a post. Around a 1-1/2 inch group average center of plate 4-1/2 inches above
the top of the front sight, you can see the whole pop can not hidden by the front sight. Now 100yards. Front sight
round bead centered in the "circle" the semi buckhorn makes, with the paper plate on top of the front sight, think soft
ball on a post. Your 4 inch average group will now be centered in the top 1/2 of the plate 7 inches above the top of
the front sight. Take your deer chest and set it on top of your front sight it goes into the front shoulder/chest and
you are able to see your target and not hide it. The point here is you CAN'T HIT what you CAN'T SEE. Now go shoot
at a 8inch steel plate, paint one side and leave the other side bare. The reason is your sight picture will look different
when you flip the plate around. Go shoot, shoot more, shoot again. Did I mention go shooting? Can you judge 50 yards
from 100 yards, If not get a range finder and practice until you can. Use those 2 sight pictures and move your plate
from 25 to 100 plus yards and practice. The first sight picture will work from hair to 70yrds the second from 70-110.
Again you can't hit what you can't see. The 45colt will do the job as far as you can get a nice sight picture.
I shot a cow Elk in the chest coming straight at me at 67yrds with this Lee 300gr load and it broke the pelvis. It weighed
395lbs, that was over 4ft of elk, 'pudding'
For those who try to shoot behind the front sight give this a try, you just might like it.

Happy 4th everyone,
Let's all make some noise,
Take Care
Rick

Thanks for posting this ! I just picked up my first rifle with these buckhorn sights in 454 casull. I have never used this type of sight before and I just learned why my first 20 rounds through the gun were all high 😂
Great info thanks!

[MessybearII]

Interesting info on Rel- 7!
JL also liked it in his 500 Long loads

[GONRA]

GONRA (too soft hearted to go huntin') remembers 1950''s 1960's (?) Guns & Ammo articles
recommending the .35 Remington for blasting thru Midwestern Brush and harvesting Bambi...

[Hanshi]

A load such as you describe and from a rifle will certainly take deer. I, personally, do not have much faith in cast bullets for use on deer. But the .45 Colt is a brute! Drill a hollow point in it and it becomes a better projectile. OR, shoot high on the front shoulder to break bones and likely the spine. He should drop.

[Good Cheer]

As the name says im on the fence about using my 1873 winchester saddle carbine 20" barrel on a hunt in the mountains the sight can range from 20-200 yards and to my knowledge 100 yards is the furthest range i can take deer. Im going with a friend and im into "heritage hunting" and im not sure if this load and the load is

Lee precision 452-255 gn with 1:20 alloy and powder coated.
With a velocity average in around 875 fps using Titegroup.

To be honest ive only used this load on coyotes to great effect. But only factory loaded .308 win on deer

So my question to the community is this a viable load to take deer down if I place my shots well?

A spit patched .45 round ball will take deer out to 100 yards. Then again you can crank out a lot of velocity with a .45 long rifle and 70 grains or so FFFg but hey, it sheds velocity about like a used kleenex too. The powder capacity of that brass case for the .45Colt is the problem so how can it be worked around? My answer is by using a heavy boolit and getting the velocity up as much as practical with a really soft boolit that will go splat when it gets there. To that end I'd find a Lyman design #454485 and have a great big hollow point pin added. Then I'd cast them really soft and use Hornandy gas checks for structural resistance to base deformation and a really good lube and a slow powder. The nose profile would be good for the lever action. The heavy weight is good for velocity retention and penetration. The soft boolit and big hollow point is good for expansion. And you're doing powder coating so yeah, a heavy soft drag chute at a highest workable velocity.
Any how, that's what I'd do.