CMP M14 Announcement

[barnetmill]

To be eligible for sale to citizens, a machine gun has to have been on the registry as of May 19, 1986. As I understand it, guns owned by the military are exempt from NFA so these never would have never been registered. Meaning, the question of whether these could be sold to citizens as machine guns has been moot for over 40 years now.

The Federal government has transferred M16s and apparently some M14s to police departments. Now police department do get an exemption relative to the NFA. I would like to know the details about lowers of the M16s that got transfered. AR-15 stripped lowers can be obtained cheaply and so I do not know if those were switched out.
I did hang out at one forum and one member was an LEO that had a military M14 and yearly there was some paper work requirement he had to fulfilled if I got it right and also remember the story correctly.
I know that if I ever chanced on a lower that was one of the very early Colt ARs or somehow a 'legitimate' M16 receiver I would remove it from the gun and turn a torch on it and turn it into puddle of metal.
Even if the Trump ATF said it was ok, one never knows what will happen with the ATF's direction in the future. Last lower that I purchased with sales tax and background check was under $100 dollars several years ago.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm far from an expert on the topic, but my understanding is that the transferable/pre-sample/post-sample status has absolutely no bearing on LE agencies. They can get whatever toys they want. Yes, ATF's word is only valid as long as whoever is in charge remains there, and sometimes its even less than that.

[barnetmill]

I'm far from an expert on the topic, but my understanding is that the transferable/pre-sample/post-sample status has absolutely no bearing on LE agencies. They can get whatever toys they want. Yes, ATF's word is only valid as long as whoever is in charge remains there, and sometimes its even less than that.

I do not have an understanding as to how the government handles transfers to local and state agencies.
Google says
The government only loans weapons and still technically still owns them

Regulations for weapons transferred or given by the federal government to local police agencies are primarily governed by the Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO) 1033 Program, federal executive orders, and strict property loan agreements.The 1033 Program and Property Rules
On-Loan Status: Small arms and tactical gear provided through the Defense Logistics Agency 1033 program remain federal property on permanent loan; they are never gifted outright.

If the department purchases FA weapon outright, I believe that the ATF still has a record of it.

Here is what google AI has to say of it. And google is certainly not the last word on it.

AI Overview

Registry and Transfer Records
NFRTR Entry:
Non-federal law enforcement agencies acquiring machine guns must register them with the ATF, which records the weapon's description, serial number, and the identifying details of the government agency.
ATF Form 5 (Official Transfer):
Used to document the tax-exempt transfer of an existing NFA firearm from a manufacturer, importer, or dealer to a government agency for official use.
ATF Form 10 (Registration): Used by state or local government agencies to register unregistered National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms they acquire and place into official use.

Dealer and Manufacturer Records
Bound Books:
Licensed dealers and manufacturers maintain acquisition and disposition (A&D) records showing when a machine gun was received and when it was dispositioned (sold or transferred) to a law enforcement department.
Law Enforcement Letters:
Transfers of certain restricted "post-86" machine guns require an official letter on the law enforcement agency's letterhead, signed by the chief, sheriff, or authorized official, which is kept as part of the transaction compliance trail.

[Mile Marker]

Pretty safe to say that these will bring big bucks. Also safe to say that they are above my pay grade, but I am glad they are being converted, saved and sold to collectors.
Too bad this happened 30 some years too late to save thousands of them form the Clinton chopper.

[barnetmill]

Pretty safe to say that these will bring big bucks. Also safe to say that they are above my pay grade, but I am glad they are being converted, saved and sold to collectors.
Too bad this happened 30 some years too late to save thousands of them form the Clinton chopper.

Google says
The Decision to Halt and Destroy
Secretary McNamara stopped M14 production on January 23, 1963, after over one million rifles were made, because of cost overruns, production delays, and a push for lighter weapons.
He ordered the military's existing inventory of M14 rifles to be demilitarized and scrapped.
Workers destroyed most rifles by cutting their receivers in two with a torch or machine shear, including many brand-new and unfired units

[M-Tecs]

Google says
The Decision to Halt and Destroy
Secretary McNamara stopped M14 production on January 23, 1963, after over one million rifles were made, because of cost overruns, production delays, and a push for lighter weapons.
He ordered the military's existing inventory of M14 rifles to be demilitarized and scrapped.
Workers destroyed most rifles by cutting their receivers in two with a torch or machine shear, including many brand-new and unfired units

If I remember correctly Clinton/Gore had about 250,000 destroyed. That includes the parts. That killed the parts supple stream to military marksmanship teams. McNamara did end the product, however, the claims of destroying all are at best internet BS. It hard to sell something that doesn't exist like the CMP is doing. Same for using them as a platform for the M21 or the MK 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle (EBR). Magizine did not get chopped by Clinton/Gore. For a short time if you purchased a 100 or more you could get them for under a dollar a piece. I purchased 500 and flipped most of them for $5.00 each.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/m14.htm#:...%20Near%20East.
Although the U.S. Government had sold the M14 production tooling to Taiwan in 1969, and the Clinton Administration destroyed hundreds of thousands of the rifles and sent approximately 170,000 more to arm the Balkan countries and Israel, remaining U.S. inventories of M14s were quickly sent to the Near East.

https://www.thearmorylife.com/genera...vy-m14-rifles/
In 2011, reliable estimates placed about 10% of the original production M14 rifles still in service or held within U.S. military stocks.

https://navyseals.com/weapons-demo/m14/
Although the M14 was phased out in the 1960’s, M14 variants are still used in the U.S. military. Navy SEALs started using modified M14s as sniper rifles as early as Vietnam. They have used them in Afghanistan and Iraq, primarily as designated marksman and sniper rifles. Navy SEALs keep the M14 in inventory due to its excellent accuracy, effectiveness at long range, and strong takedown capabilities of the 7.62mm round.

[barnetmill]

If I ..............
Although the U.S. Government had sold the M14 production tooling to Taiwan in 1969, and the Clinton Administration destroyed hundreds of thousands of the rifles and sent approximately 170,000 more to arm the Balkan countries and Israel, remaining U.S. inventories of M14s were quickly sent to the Near East.

https://www.thearmorylife.com/genera...vy-m14-rifles/
In 2011, reliable estimates placed about 10% of the original production M14 rifles still in service or held within U.S. military stocks.

https://navyseals.com/weapons-demo/m14/
Although the M14 was phased out in the 1960’s, M14 variants are still used in the U.S. military. Navy SEALs started using modified M14s as sniper rifles as early as Vietnam. They have used them in Afghanistan and Iraq, primarily as designated marksman and sniper rifles. Navy SEALs keep the M14 in inventory due to its excellent accuracy, effectiveness at long range, and strong takedown capabilities of the 7.62mm round.

Perhaps you might know. There is a claim that I read on an M14 forum some years ago claiming that the Tooling sent to Taiwan ended up the PRC (People republic of China). And that this tooling was used to make Polytech and Norinco versions of the M14. Some of these were said to have been shipped to Philippine guerilla groups. The receivers were hard, but the bolts are a lot softer. I replaced mine with a TRW bolt and also the trigger group.

[M-Tecs]

Perhaps you might know. There is a claim that I read on an M14 forum some years ago claiming that the Tooling sent to Taiwan ended up the PRC (People republic of China). And that this tooling was used to make Polytech and Norinco versions of the M14. Some of these were said to have been shipped to Philippine guerilla groups. The receivers were hard, but the bolts are a lot softer. I replaced mine with a TRW bolt and also the trigger group.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...logies-m-14-s/

[barnetmill]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...logies-m-14-s/

The article does not mention the acquisition of tooling from Taiwan. What is below is the official information released by by US sources. It is a good article.

began soon after the United States started producing the design. These Chinese-made rifles were either reverse-engineered from captured specimens or built with “acquired” copies of the original technical data. Intended to be sent to communist rebels around the world, and in order to disguise their origin, the rifles copied U.S.-made M14s down to their markings. The plan was thwarted after several shipments were intercepted on their way to the Philippines, and many of the select-fire rifles that remained in China were destroyed.

[JSnover]

The article does not mention the acquisition of tooling from Taiwan. What is below is the official information released by by US sources. It is a good article.

Second paragraph: "The origins of communist China-made M14 rifles (not to be confused with licensed manufacturing of the M14 in Taiwan using U.S.-supplied machinery) began soon after the United States started producing the design."