Paper Cartridge Use

[RogerDat]

I picked up a template and mandril to make paper cartridges for a Zouave rifle.

I know in a musket the paper is used as wadding and I assume is just left on the ball when ramming home.

What I want to know is how is the Zouave Minnie bullet paper dealt with. Does Minnie ball get unwrapped or paper left on and if paper is left on is it just the portion that has the minnie ball or the whole cartridge including the powder portion. The paper cartridge has two chambers projectile is in one, powder in the other.

Wrapped in paper not sure how much good the lube is going to do at softening the fouling but the only info I found on loading just said the paper gets rammed with the bullet as wadding and that the paper is greased. While nothing I've looked at on making the cartridges talks about greasing the paper only the bullet lube recipe.

Hoping a reenactor or other knowledgeable member can provide me with enlightenment.

[Nobade]

I think American cartridges were meant to open, pour powder detach the ball and ram it separately. The English cartridges used part of the paper as a patch. A proper fitting Burton ball wouldn't leave any room for a patch. Musket cartridges with a round ball were a different matter. The wrapper was used as wadding.

[ofitg]

According to this document - after pouring powder into the barrel, the paper was removed from the ball and then the ball was loaded into the barrel -

https://musket.dk/wp-content/uploads...ry-Tactics.pdf

[omgb]

In American CW cartridges, the top of the cartridge is folded into a tail. This is torn off and the powder dumped into the barrel. The Minne bullet is in the bottom of the cartridge base down. The paper is torn from the bullet and discarded. Don't put the wrapper in the bore as wadding. 2 bad things may happen. First, the paper may be blown into the base affecting accuracy. Second, the paper may leave embers in the bore to ignite the next charge. Definitely not good.

American minnes are cast and sized ar .575 to .577. There's no room for a patch. The Brits cast their Prittchet-style bullets at .550 with a base plug to ensure massive expansion. The paper wrap forms a patch upon ignition.

You will find that with the Italian repops, you can't use the British cartridge. The Italians use a broach to rifle their barrels. It's fast, cheap and does a great job for round balls. However, the rifling is only .004" deep and will not reliably spin a Prittchet-type bullet. You need progressive depth rifling to do that with .015 at the breech tapering to .005 at the muzzle. So, stick to the American style bullets or use a round ball and patch. For target shooting, you may find that 35-40 grains of 3F gives you the best accuracy.

[RogerDat]

Didn't consider the burning embers from paper wrapped bullets. Appreciate the efforts to keep me from having to throw away underwear in the range porta pottie.

I also have a Charleville reproduction that is .69 which I have round ball with .10 patch. Have to run a patch to clear the crud every couple of shots. I also bought a paper cartridge kit for it. Using a .65 mold and understood the paper stayed on the ball as wadding. Haven't tried it yet but .65 was size used in that period from a manual and provides greater clearance so fouling doesn't prevent loading.

Did seem like it would take some pretty strong nerves to stand there peeling paper off a minnie to reload while folks are shooting at you. That certainly would provide some motivation for developing the brass cartridge.

Some interesting info on the prichette bullets.

The link to the manual is also very interesting, I will have to try the steps for reloading operation that it provides. Although I'm not going to tear that cartridge paper with my teeth, I'm pretty sure I already sent my dentists kid to Harvard no point in chipping in on the kids off campus housing by breaking a tooth.

I did read that the revolutionary war militia had a physical requirement of at least 4 opposing teeth in the front of the mouth, required to tear cartridge with teeth.

[RogerDat]

I have a follow up question.

My question is has anyone tried melting down the black powder cartridge lube from Lars at White Label Lubes for Minnie bullet dip lube? It seems to me it would cover the same characteristics as the 1:8 lube without spoiling.

The period lube for minnie paper cartridge is as I understand it an 8 parts beeswax to 1 part tallow. A very stiff higher melting point mix than the 50-50 basic lube I make and then adjust the mix a bit for hot or cold weather.

That lube stick seems to be a popular lube with BP cartridge shooters so one assumes it helps keep fouling soft and doesn't melt into the charge. Although paper wrap vs the tighter seal of a bullet in a case is not an apples to apples comparison.

If I'm starting down the road to crazy town be good to know it. If I'm boldly going someplace new I'll take the one stick I already bought and make a couple or three cartridges to see if the lube bleeds into the paper in a significant way.

Has anyone else discovered that basement mice really LOVE the crisco and beeswax lube? Kept some lubed minnie in a bread loaf pan and discovered the lube was all but gone from the bullets and had been replaced with a bunch of mouse "soft shot".

Now have those minnie in a sealed container. Mouse moved to a sealed container too, the trash can. Even my wife knows to not mess around with the reloading bench and I like her a lot more than I did that mouse.

[36g]

If I recall correctly at one time there was a process to treat the cartridge paper with a potassium nitrate solution and allowing that to dry before making the cartridges. The concept was that the paper would be fully consumed upon firing.

[RogerDat]

According to this document - after pouring powder into the barrel, the paper was removed from the ball and then the ball was loaded into the barrel -

https://musket.dk/wp-content/uploads...ry-Tactics.pdf

I have to say this document had exactly the information I was looking for. Plus some other interesting stuff. I may have to practice a bit to get it all down but it definitely answered my question.

[carbine]

Keith K on Backyard muzzleloaders on FB is very knowledgeable

[Dan Cash]

If I recall correctly at one time there was a process to treat the cartridge paper with a potassium nitrate solution and allowing that to dry before making the cartridges. The concept was that the paper would be fully consumed upon firing.

I have used curler papers from permanent wave sets, treated with potassium nitrate and dried, to make revolver cartridges. The paper is completly consumed upon firing. I pay close attention to the charge holes when reloading but, after several hundred rounds, have yet to find any embers after firing.

[carbine]

Keith K over on backyard muzzleloaders on FB has some posts on this

[challenger_i]

I have used curler papers from permanent wave sets, treated with potassium nitrate and dried, to make revolver cartridges. The paper is completly consumed upon firing. I pay close attention to the charge holes when reloading but, after several hundred rounds, have yet to find any embers after firing.

I use cigarette papers for 36 cal. Thanks for the tip on the curler papers!

Find it amusing that nitrating cartridge papers is a lot like wet developing photographs!

[HamGunner]

I have never played with paper cartridges for my rifles but have in my revolvers. While I have never really liked to use paper cartridges in my revolvers, as my ram areas are not large enough and it is a hassle to get the cartridges inserted into the chambers without taking the cylinders out, I have always used the beautician curler papers with Duco Cement for the glue. The glue contains nitrocellulose and helps burn the papers. I have never found any paper residue even without using potassium nitrate saturation for the papers.

All my revolvers are 1851 frames except for my original 1861 Colt Navy, which is built on the 1860 Army type frame. The 1851's just do not offer much room for loading the paper cartridges.

I use my beeswax/lambs tallow lube on the conicals as well as patch lube for my rifles. I just mix it with enough beeswax until it is stiff enough for my use.

[405grain]

I used to have a Zouave replica. Back then there wasn't any internet, but if you watched enough western movies you knew that you were supposed to tear off the base of the paper cartridge with your teeth (John Wayne style) and pour the powder down the muzzle. Then you tore the paper off the mini ball (which was usually lubed with Crisco) and rammed it down on the powder charge. The Zouave used a flanged musket cap, but back in the day it was pretty common practice to swap the nipple out for a No.11 percussion cap. On my particular rifle the first shot would go kinda wild, but after that the barrel was "seasoned" and it was possible to repeatedly hit a soda can at 50 yards, or call your shot on a life sized steel pig target at 100 yards. I ended up gifting that rifle to my brother in law, but he passed away years ago and I have no idea what became of it after that.

[challenger_i]

No matter which cartridge loading method you use, be certain to use beeswax to lube the cartridge, as using lard or beef tallow, you may cause an uprising amongst the native troops!