Not a CB load, 223 Rem

[nueces5]

Can anyone give me some guidance on a .223 REM load with .4064?
I use REM primers, a Hornady HPBT 75-grain match.
They'll be fired in a CZ .527 twist rate 1:9.
I've gotten some good groups with R15, but I'm running out and can't get them.

[Texas by God]

I use 21.5 grs of IMR 4064 in my 6x45mm rifle with 80 gr bullets.
Hodgdon shows 21 to 24 grs of 4064 for the .223 with 75 gr bullets.


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[braddock]

Take a look at the Vihtavuouri website, multiple powder choices both single and dual based powders. FWIW Vv N140 is said to match R15.
I suggest this as I'm in the UK and 4064 is like rocking horse crap, there is a Lovex powder that is said to be identical to 4064 which is S062 maybe under world powders the US brand name.
Can't be of any more use.

[nueces5]

I understand the business has changed. The old gunpowder manufacturers, except for a few (I think Alliant), are no longer manufacturers. They outsource their production to countries that are cheaper to produce, or for other reasons.
Here, the imported IMR4350 doesn't look anything like the original. The other day I was talking to a gunsmith who still has a can of original 4350, and neither the grain size nor the velocity are comparable.
So, I'll set a stopwatch and see if I'm on the right track.
Does anyone know what velocity a 1:9 twist rate barrel should fire with a 75-grain FMJ?

[Larry Gibson]

2700 -2800 fps +/- depending on load and barrel length.

[nueces5]

thanks Larry!

[charlie b]

I went to N540 and now working up some with N140 for my .223 (22" barrel, 1:9).

I usually shoot heavier bullets. 73ELDM at 25gn N540 at 2980fps. I used to shoot 77SMK with 23.5gn Varget at 2800. 75ELDM at 24.2 N540 at 2760. This is at 4500ft elevation.

FWIW, the 75ELDM are a bit longer than the 77SMK and if not pushed hard do not always stabilize. I had some faster loads for them but went to the 73ELDM instead. They are good 600yd bullets.

[nueces5]

I went to N540 and now working up some with N140 for my .223 (22" barrel, 1:9).

I usually shoot heavier bullets. 73ELDM at 25gn N540 at 2980fps. I used to shoot 77SMK with 23.5gn Varget at 2800. 75ELDM at 24.2 N540 at 2760. This is at 4500ft elevation.

FWIW, the 75ELDM are a bit longer than the 77SMK and if not pushed hard do not always stabilize. I had some faster loads for them but went to the 73ELDM instead. They are good 600yd bullets.

Well, thank you very much, I'll try a couple of loads with higher speed.

[Larry Gibson]

Hornady 75 gr Match will stabilize in a 9" twist with top end loads. However, as Charlie mentions, the ELD Match won't. The bottom of the factory boxes specifies a 7" twist. I know they won't give very good accuracy out of my 26" Kreiger barrel with an 8" twist whereas the 73 gr ELD match is extremely accurate. Both were tested at 300 yards on the 300 yard F Class target BTW. The on box specification for the 73 gr ELD Match is an 8" twist.

Remembering bullet stability for a given caliber bullet is based on velocity, twist and bullet length. Weight of the bullet [given lead core bullets] is not a part of the equation.

Bullet lengths +/-:

Hornady 75 gr HPBT Match [Hornady made two different ones, the shorter one for use in ARs is discussed here] is 1.003"

Hornady 73 gr ELD Match is 1.040"

Hornady 75 gr ELD Match is 1.118"

Thus, it appears with a 9" twist .224 caliber with velocities of 2800 - 2900 fps the maximum length for a bullet to stabilize is 1.003 or, perhaps a few thousandths longer but not as long as 1.118".

[nueces5]

Hornady 75 gr Match will stabilize in a 9" twist with top end loads. However, as Charlie mentions, the ELD Match won't. The bottom of the factory boxes specifies a 7" twist. I know they won't give very good accuracy out of my 26" Kreiger barrel with an 8" twist whereas the 73 gr ELD match is extremely accurate. Both were tested at 300 yards on the 300 yard F Class target BTW. The on box specification for the 73 gr ELD Match is an 8" twist.

Remembering bullet stability for a given caliber bullet is based on velocity, twist and bullet length. Weight of the bullet [given lead core bullets] is not a part of the equation.

Bullet lengths +/-:

Hornady 75 gr HPBT Match [Hornady made two different ones, the shorter one for use in ARs is discussed here] is 1.003"

Hornady 73 gr ELD Match is 1.040"

Hornady 75 gr ELD Match is 1.118"

Thus, it appears with a 9" twist .224 caliber with velocities of 2800 - 2900 fps the maximum length for a bullet to stabilize is 1.003 or, perhaps a few thousandths longer but not as long as 1.118".

Good morning, I don't know where you get these measurements, but I'm interested in learning.
These are the FMJs I got here.
As you say, it suggests a 1:8 barrel.

1.jpg2.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

Those are not "FMJ" bullets. They are BTHP bullets [Bot Tail Hollow Points]. Perhaps just a difference in nomenclature between Argentina and the USA?

Anyways those Hornady product #2278s are indeed intended for 8" or faster twists. Hornady's product #2296s are also a 75 gr HPBT Match bullet intended for use in 9" or faster twists. The #2296s are the ones I referred to as being stabilized by the 9" twist because they are a shorter bullet than the #2279s. The #2279s do need an 8" twist as the box says.

I got the measurements by measuring the bullets. There can be a slight variation on bullet length of a thousandth, two or three depending on the different lot of manufacture.

[nueces5]

Well, I bought these new protagonists.
I have an IMR 4064 or Reloader 15.
The weapon is a CZ 527 twist rate 1:9.
Any recipes to recommend???
Thanks!WhatsApp Image 2025-09-18 at 16.27.56.jpg
WhatsApp Image 2025-09-18 at 16.27.49(1).jpg

[1006]

IMG_1071.jpg

[1006]

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[nueces5]

thanks 1006
I have seen that!

[Larry Gibson]

The 4064 data that 1006 posted or work up from 23 gr to 24.5 gr of Varget.

I also have some data for AA2460 and Win 760 if those are available(?).

[nueces5]

win 760!
I have a lot of 760
It seems like the Win 760 works better with heavy bullets.
I should have tried it with the 75-grain ones.

[Larry Gibson]

Start at 22 gr of Win 760 under the 75 gr Match bullet. Work up to 25 gr +/- watching for the usual pressure signs. With your rifle you should get the same 2800 fps +/-. The use of a magnum SR primer will probably be best also.