Just an example of dimensions that matter. 243,25.06,6.5 Creed, 270,308,35Whelan have head size of 0.470" 6.5Swiss does NOT but measures 0.479".Originally Posted by M-Tecs
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Just an example of dimensions that matter. 243,25.06,6.5 Creed, 270,308,35Whelan have head size of 0.470" 6.5Swiss does NOT but measures 0.479".
Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!
On this we agree..................
What is a 6.5Swiss?????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????
The only dimensions that have relevance for a 6.5x55 Swedish are the dimensions of the 6.5x55 Swedish specifically the cartridge and chamber specs.
Not interested enough to do the research but the 6.5x55 Swedish was a military cartridge designed long before CIP or SAAMI so like a lot of the cartridges of that era there are more variations than with newer cartridges. Those variations do cause issues at times. The dimensions of other cartridges have zero relevance unless one wants to use them to form another case.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 09-16-2025 at 12:45 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Did you really have case head separation? Or are you just seeing expansion above the web?
As Mr Wallace pointed out, the 6.5x55 is prone to show expansion there, with brass that has undersized base dimensions.
Do you reload other cartridges, or only this cartridge for this one rifle?
“Turn up the heat, and cast cheap!”
Barry54
I did have separation on old brass which is why I purchased new brass. I load other calibers but this is the only one I've experienced this issue with.
A new rifle deserves new brass.
Take the old brass to the scrapyard and forget about it while you eat lunch with the funds you received.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Somewhere, a very long time, reading about Mauser and his cartridges, i remember something about his cartridge work with the Swedes/Norwegians - the cartridge did not quite meet the pressure velocity requirements requested using the 'standard' 12mm case head, so Mauser enlarged the case head to accommodate the requirements of the contract for velocity and pressure. True? IDK Did the 6.5x55 Krag come before the Mauser? May have been a competitive development.
You mentioned previously having a neck size die. That is the best solution. With cast bullet loads neck sizing will work fine for many firings. With top end jacketed bullets loads you will probably have to partial full length size when chambering and/or extraction becomes overly difficult. Adjust your FL die to size the case just enough to feel a slight 'crush fit" when chambering the case.
The 6.5x55 Swede case has a lot of taper and will "grow" in length when partial sized in a FL sizing die. Neck length trimming [case OAL] will probably be necessary before chambering the partial resized case. If not trimmed after sizing before testing chambering the over length neck may give a false feeling.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
After reading this again, I believe you are conflating a couple of terms. Overworking the brass will work harden the brass. Standard sizing dies including neck sizing only dies overwork case necks by sizing the neck too small than expanding it back to a larger size. Dies are made that way to work with most neck wall thicknesses. Bushing dies are one work around but you need to have consistent neck thickness for them to work properly. The end result of overworking the neck is they will crack at some point if not annealed.
The case body normally isn't overworked to the point it becomes an issue. Overly large chambers would be an exception. That can lead to a longitudinal crack on the case body.
Case head separation is a function of brass thinning in a very specific area not directly related to work hardening. It happens in the narrow band between the case head that does not expand enough to adhere to the chamber walls and the front part of the case that does adhere to the case walls. Pushing the shoulder back too much results in this narrow band thinning to the point of failure.
That point is clearly shown in the animated illustration in post #3 here. https://www.m14forum.com/threads/fir...d-case.521506/
Lots of options on how to deal with these issues. Only you can determine what’s best for you based on you’re the volume and type of your shooting, brass life expectations and accuracy expectations. Secondary considerations would be costs for measuring tools or other more advanced methods and tools.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 09-16-2025 at 09:46 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
The unit cost of copper (metal) and wide use of reclaimed (scrap) metals enter the picture as well ......simple fact is every ton of copper you save by thinning your cases is $10k added to your bottom line.....one area where cases are thinned is the base to wall transition zone.......the very location of head separations.
Do you have any actual data to back that up or is it just an opinion? I just compared some Winchester 243 brass purchased in the mid-70's with Winchester once fire brass that I am loading for a buddy. He purchased factory ammo last fall. I sized and volume tested 3 each of the new and old with no noticeable statistical difference.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Three pages of arguing and different opinions. I am not the sharpest pencil in the pack, but I think I would want to check it with headspace gages and know if Tikka needs to fix it. I get that you can let the brass grow and fill the chamber and just size it a few thousands from there, but you paid for a rifle that had a proper headspace. What about factory ammo? While we all deal with tolerances in head space too big is too big, new brass has to be stretch to get to the chamber size at least once and it is never the same after that.
Measuring is a good thing. It always suprises me how resistant some are to advancing their reloading knowledge and techniques.
For the average user methods like the Hornady HS comparator or the RCBS Precision mics will provide more usable info than a HS gauge. Even if you use HS gauges with tape/shims on them or have a match set of HS in .001" increments they only tell you the chamber length. The RCBS precision mic will tell you the actual chamber length minus case spring back of a fired case. The Hornady is a comparator it's better for gauging shoulder bump but using it to compare a unfired factory case to a fired case will indicate if you have any issues like your fired shoulder being .010" longer than the factory unfired case. If you use a HS gauge with the Hornady it becomes a direct reading like the RCBS Precision mic.
Most rimless bottle neck cases are normally .002” or .003” under minimum chamber HS. For rimmed and belted bottle neck cases that does not hold true. They can have much more shoulder clearance, however, that doesn’t create the same head separation issues as a rimless case since the rim or belt limits how far the case is pushed into the chamber limiting stretch in the area you get head separations.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 09-17-2025 at 03:23 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I'm with M-Tecs on the technical details. I appreciate the historical references as well, posted by him and others. As far as the head separation issue the OP is dealing with, several posters have mentioned neck-sizing only, at least until resistance on bolt closure becomes a bit more than minor. When I start out with new brass or conversions from .30-06, I lubricate the outside of the case with a smear of case sizing lube and fire a mild load to fire-form the cases. Doing this allows the cases to fire-form to the chamber while flowing back to the bolt face on that thin film of lube, hence, no stretching takes place. This results in cases which are a perfect fit in the chamber and I neck size thereafter. I have cases which have been reloaded 30 times and they're still in service.
Eventually, there will be resistance on bolt closure. As noted by others, set the full length die to just kiss the shoulder, to set the shoulder back .001 - .002". They'll chamber easily again and you're set for another bunch of firings.
As for .473 diameter cases being fire-formed to the slightly larger Swede, I have never experienced a problem with case life. Once fire-formed, they're good to go.
I think out of all the options presented i will start with the neck sizing die I have. The other alternatives I have read are interesting, but I don't have the confidence yet to delve into that yet. What do you al mean by kissing the shoulder? How do I do that?
nvm.
Last edited by triggerhappy243; 09-17-2025 at 06:45 PM.
The simplest and cheapest method is to paint the upper part of the brass with a black or blue marker. As you lower the die, full s. or neck only, you'll notice where the die action occurs. This also applies to the desired kissing of the shoulder area, of course.
Food is overrated. A nice rifle is way more important.
Rob
Kissing as in barely, gently, touching. Not sucking face and pushing the shoulder back.
My Straight Shooter Thread: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...gg!&highlight=
Most sizing die never touch the web part of the case. You will see a 'line' there - the rest of the case will have very fine scratches from the sizing die. Use the 'hooked' paperclip trick to check for head separation.
Whatever!
As noted by others, "kissing" the shoulder involves setting the sizing die stop nut (or ring) so the die shoulder just touches the fired case's shoulder. Take a fired case, lube it and smoke the shoulder black with a candle flame and start with the full length sizing die a full rotation up from the shell holder when the ram is all the way up. The die threads are 14 threads per inch, so one turn raises the die up from the shell holder .0714".
1. Size the case. Because the die is so far up and unable to reach the shoulder, the shoulder will still be black and untouched.
2. Screw the die in 1/6 of a turn and size again and examine the blackened case shoulder to see if the die has smudged the black. (if your die has a 6-sided stop nut, approximating this will be easy and 1/6 of a turn equates to .012" change in die height. If not, just approximate it.) As you progress past 3/6 of a turn, reduce how far you turn the die a little each time. The idea here is to repeat this operation until the soot just barely shows smudge marks and the die has contacted the shoulder without moving it back. (Yeah, tedious, but you'll only do this once.)
3. Now, hold the die where it is and screw down the stop nut until it's tight on the press and tighten the set screw on the stop nut. Your die height from the shell holder is now set to agree with the shoulder height in the chamber.
4. Use your neck sizing die for loading cartridges until you begin to get resistance on bolt closure. All actions stretch just a bit under the stress of firing, so this slow movement of the shoulder is normal.
5. For neck-sized cases which eventually resist bolt closure, use your now-preset full length die to return the shoulder to the preset length which the chamber will accept. Because of the springiness of brass, you may find it necessary to loosen the stop ring and turn the die in just a smidge more. Just 10 degrees of rotation will give you .002" and that should be enough.
Sound like a plan?
Last edited by yeahbub; Today at 08:08 AM.
You're losing me on step 5. If I have the die set in step 2 how is the last step being performed? Do i need 2 sizing dies...Well, I have some fired brass to experiment on. maybe I'll see what I'm not understanding
Last edited by chutestrate; Yesterday at 08:26 PM.
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