What my pastor wrote about Charlie Kirk

[pmer]

The old testament and God commanding the Israelites to attack the Canaanites has to do with Genisis chapter 3 and the sons of God narrative. God is trying to clean up what is left of that "giant" blood line that was wrongly created. Goliath was a symbolic ending to the Nephilim tribes.

This is just my opinion but Romans 12:19 also has something to with Heavenly judgement. If you're the hands and feet of God confronting evil, don't try to actively be God by sending that person to eternal separation from God. That judgement belongs to the LORD.

Otherwise wouldn't a soldier have to give up heaven to be a soldier?

[HumptyDumpty]

Well, while you "mature" men have your lofty discussions about the sinful nature of violence, your enemies will simply kill you, overtake your lands, and wipe your memory from this earth.

[fatelk]

Well, while you "mature" men have your lofty discussions about the sinful nature of violence, your enemies will simply kill you, overtake your lands, and wipe your memory from this earth.

That's assuming that mature men having lofty discussion aren't still fully capable of any level of violence necessary to defend themselves, their homes and families.

[thadfz]

Like the great Mr T said, “I pity the fool”.

[ACC]

Well, while you "mature" men have your lofty discussions about the sinful nature of violence, your enemies will simply kill you, overtake your lands, and wipe your memory from this earth.

If that is God's will, so be it. And if it's God's will there is nothing you can do to stop it.

ACC

[danmat]

First thing I want to say is thank everyone for their post on this thread.
I have always considered myself a good Christan, but some simple post on a forum sometimes make you think, am I?
I am ASHAMED to say I have never read Holy Bible all the way through, like Dverna said easy to cherry pick, but that is going to change thanks to this thread.
Dan

[dverna]

If that is God's will, so be it. And if it's God's will there is nothing you can do to stop it.

ACC

This reminds me of a joke:

A hurricane was coming and people were warned to leave the area. One man said, "God will protect me."

The waters began to rise and a neighbor came by in a row boat and asked the man if he wanted to get out. The man said. "God will protect me."

After a few hours the water level was getting to his second story and a Coast Guard cutter cam be and asked the man to evacuate. The man said. "God will protect me."

Things got worse and the man was forced to get on top of the roof. A helicopter came by to rescue him and the man said. "God will protect me."

The water kept rising and the man was swept away and drowned.


When the man got to heaven he talked to God. He said you know I prayed to you Lord every day and studied the Bible. Why did you not save me?

God looked at him and said, "I sent your neighbor, the Coast Guard and a helicopter to save you and you refused my help."


On a separate issue. We know God will not protect us from many threats in spite of what is written in the Bible. If we believed that, we would not need a military to protect our country, or the police or to carry a gun. We would not need armed security at our churches. IMO trusting God to protect us is not sensible. There is evil in this world, and I believe God wants us to defend ourselves from evil and not show it mercy.

The man who murdered Kirk is evil and it is up to God to grant him mercy. God may direct the Holy Ghost to move the jury to spare his life, but I would not vote that way if I was on the jury. When there are no consequences to evil, it makes it easier for others to do evil things.

[elmacgyver0]

This reminds me of a joke:

A hurricane was coming and people were warned to leave the area. One man said, "God will protect me."

The waters began to rise and a neighbor came by in a row boat and asked the man if he wanted to get out. The man said. "God will protect me."

After a few hours the water level was getting to his second story and a Coast Guard cutter cam be and asked the man to evacuate. The man said. "God will protect me."

Things got worse and the man was forced to get on top of the roof. A helicopter came by to rescue him and the man said. "God will protect me."

The water kept rising and the man was swept away and drowned.


When the man got to heaven he talked to God. He said you know I prayed to you Lord every day and studied the Bible. Why did you not save me?

God looked at him and said, "I sent your neighbor, the Coast Guard and a helicopter to save you and you refused my help."


On a separate issue. We know God will not protect us from many threats in spite of what is written in the Bible. If we believed that, we would not need a military to protect our country, or the police or to carry a gun. We would not need armed security at our churches. IMO trusting God to protect us is not sensible. There is evil in this world, and I believe God wants us to defend ourselves from evil and not show it mercy.

The man who murdered Kirk is evil and it is up to God to grant him mercy. God may direct the Holy Ghost to move the jury to spare his life, but I would not vote that way if I was on the jury. When there are no consequences to evil, it makes it easier for others to do evil things.

Amen

[M-Tecs]

Don very well stated.

Having spent some time in the mid-east their fatalistic view the Allah will protect them regardless of their actions is strong with some. Some of the stuff they do claiming that if it's their time it's their time and they can't do anything about it. I watched one standing on a car hood going an estimated 100 mph when he was blown off. While we did not stop judging from the condition of his body he was dead. That is just one example of many that I witnessed the aftermath results.

God gave us the tools to help ourselves. If we opt to ignore those tools that is on us not God.

[HumptyDumpty]

If that is God's will, so be it. And if it's God's will there is nothing you can do to stop it.

ACC

Well then, by that logic, it certainly won't hurt anything to try, will it? I've given this quite a bit of thought, and I've come to the conclusion that pacifism if evil, because it fails to make any moral distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between the victim and the victimizer.

[SavageKustoms]

First off, to the OP, your pastor seems to be an amazing individual. His statement is very well written, and comforting in a time of sorrow. You and your congregation have a wonderful shepherd.
I struggle with the ability to "turn the other cheek" as some have stated here. I feel that the Lord gave us the right, and ability to defend ourselves and loved ones. Our founding fathers not only believed the same, but made it imperative.
I believe God helps those, that help themselves. We have a right, as Americans, and as God's children, to stand up to any oppressor. If that means sending them to meet our maker, it was His will.
Watching someone so devoted to returning this country to it's roots as Mr. Kirk, being stolen from this earth, how can we not be hurt? Vengeance feels necessary, but it's not ours to have.
Being in a situation, where you have the ability to change the outcome for the better, is one thing. Taking vengeance after a situation has occurred, is a completely different story.
I guess knowing the difference, is the biggest part.

[1I-Jack]

This other question is not direct to you but to everyone. From my first post:

"I would be interested to hear if your Pastor thinks the man who assassinated Kirk should be executed. Is a life term acceptable? How about 25 years in prison? Maybe 10 years? If this killer writes a letter of remorse and apologizes will that be OK and we can release him immediately. After all we are not to judge, and vengeance is His."

I believe he should be executed...

Genesis 9:6
6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind. NIV