That would produce a crack parallel to the bore not case head separations.Originally Posted by Bad Ass Wallace
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That would produce a crack parallel to the bore not case head separations.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
perhaps i can add some help here. the point of the sizer die that is pushing on the shoulder of the case....... maybe pushing too far. Imagine a 30-06 case being full length sized by a 308 die. it is relocating the shoulder...... in your case, too far. you mention you having a neck sizer die. this neck sizer die is designed to only touch the case neck and not the shoulder. get a sharpie marker and coat the shoulder of the fired case. run it into the sizer die. the black marking should not be messed up.
Close up pictures of the effected case would be a big help.
Last edited by triggerhappy243; Yesterday at 07:40 PM.
why would .003 be better than .001 if I don't anneal?
If your cases already have the shoulder pushed back too far (causing an excessive headspace like condition) what I have done is to use a starting load from the manual. When you seat the bullet let it engage the rifling a little, just enough for you to feel the bolt closing a little hard. What this is doing is holding the case against the bolt face. When you fire the cartridge the shoulder will move forward to fill the chamber. Now you have a good chamber sized case and can neck size without issue.
Before you full length size you should back your sizing die up a bit so as not to create the head space issue again.
I'll try this. I need to try all of this because I'm really following some of this, but maybe getting my hands in it will help.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????? What a stupid statement!
Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!
I'll have a go here.
You have a reamer that cut the chamber.
You have a reamer that cut the sizing die.
In a perfect world the sizing die would be about .004 smaller than the chamber at all reference points and .005 on the neck OD .
Unfortunately most manufacturers have a plus .001 to minus .002 and the minus chamber dimension is where factory ammo and minus .002 below that is where sizing dies start .
So the best we can hope for is a minimum dimension chamber and a maximum dimension die .
The problem there is that the 2 reamers especially in your case might not be using the same drawing and conversations from metric to SAE/Imperial/inches don't always pair up .
Additionally as pointed out the heads may be the more common.471-3 instead of .476 .
Head separation is going to show up about .3 above the rim . The surest way to cure that is to leave at least part of the shoulder against the chamber wall . By that I mean just a kiss at the neck/shoulder or the shoulder/body . As long as the bolt closes freely it doesn't matter if it's feels firm at the bottom of the cam .
I've used the paper clip method. It's surprising how easy it is to feel the groove if it's separating.
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A good visual here on post #3. https://www.m14forum.com/threads/fir...d-case.521506/
Same visual here post #10https://www.m14forum.com/threads/can...hamber.523793/
Last edited by M-Tecs; Today at 01:29 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Did you buy the rifle brand new?
ACC
Overly large radial clearance on chambers produces splits like in the second pic here. https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/bl...rtridge-brass/
On chambers that do have excessive radial clearance but have proper shoulder setback the brass expands radially but it doesn't stretch in a manner that produces head separations. The chamber would have to be way outside of specs before it MIGHT become an issue. I have seen a lot case bulging with some belted magnum cases, some case conversions like 30/06 to 6.5x55 Swede, older leverguns some milsurps. Other than looking a little suspicious they have not created any issues other than that brass might not fit other rifles even after sizing.
When I first started shooting NRA Highpower my buddy purchased a well used 308 match rifle that he got cheap plus 250 rounds of new brass. It shot fine but the smith that chambered it either had an out of spec reamer or more likely the tailstock was off center so the chamber was huge. Cases looked like they were pregnant guppies above the case heads yet they still lasted 10 loadings each. After 2,500 rounds used barrel was at the end of its competitive life as was the brass. We shot with a national record holder and Palma US team. He always advised new shooters with a new rifle or barrel to purchase 500 pieces of brass. When you loaded each case 10 times it was time to pitch the barrel and brass. With the 308 that was not bad advice.
I own a Winchester 70 SS Classic in 7mm Rem. Mag. purchased new that has a radially large chamber. Noticed it the first time I shot it but it shot way better than most so I didn't send it back for rebarreling Once fired brass won't come close to chambering in my other 7mm Mag. This is the only die that will radially size the case enough to chamber in both rifles. https://www.larrywillis.com/7mmremmag.html
Never had a longitudinal crack or head separation with them. I load them till the primer pockets starts getting loose.
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...case-failures/
https://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/...e-diagnostics/
Last edited by M-Tecs; Today at 04:13 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Note the difference in case head dimensions between 6.5 Swede (0.479") and 6.5 Creed (0.470"). Some brass suppliers don't used SAAME specs for their cases.
This is where case head seperation occurs
Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!
your image does not show where the supposed separation happens.note the difference in case head dimensions between 6.5 swede (0.479") and 6.5 creed (0.470"). Some brass suppliers don't used saame specs for their cases.
this is where case head seperation occurs
simple solution for bolt guns
hide the Full Length size die someplace where you will never find it - use only the neck size die - and never touch the shoulder with it.
a decent bolt gun should be able to rechamber anything thats been fired in it. Tikka is (was?) a decent bolt gun
manufacturing shortcuts ! theres a lot of that going onNote the difference in case head dimensions between 6.5 Swede (0.479") and 6.5 Creed (0.470"). Some brass suppliers don't used SAAME specs for their cases.
This is where case head seperation occurs
348 winchester is another one, they are ten thou undersize, just happens to make them fit for conversions to a couple other calibres (43 Spainish or ?) that otherwise couldnt be done.
What does the 6.5 Swede have to do with the 6.5 Creed?Note the difference in case head dimensions between 6.5 Swede (0.479") and 6.5 Creed (0.470"). Some brass suppliers don't used SAAME specs for their cases.
This is where case head seperation occurs
It's going to take a lot more than .004" additional radial clearance before it becomes a problem.
How are you measuring your shoulder bump amount?
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
The best advise on this thread has come from oldleadhead (post #24) If you reduce your powder charge to keep pressure down a little bit, and then seat your bullet out long so that it contacts the lands, this will hold the case head against the bolt face. (the case body ahead of the case head cannot stretch if the case head is being held by the bolt face) When the rifle fires the shoulder will fireform to the chamber. After that, only neck size, do not full length resize the brass. This brass will now be matched to your rifles chamber, and you can then load these cartridges to their performance potential.
chutestrate; What reloading manual are you using? Every reloading manual that I've seen since the early 1960's explains the importance of headspace and how it works. If you have a reloading manual (or manuals), read the discussions regarding headspace that are almost always in the front part of the manual. This should not only clear up any misunderstandings, but may also inform you about problems that you may not be aware of yet. If you don't have a reloading manual then you should get one.
Hmmm what i thought I understood is not making sense now. If I am trying not to work the brass as much it seems counterintuitive to move the shoulder. 003. I'm lost on this
Load and shoot your new brass as is and don't worry about it. After that neck size a few times till cartridges start cambering harder (they might not ever do this). If / when you think you need to Full length size set your die up to barely bump the shoulder. DO NOT SET UP THE DIE BY THE FEEL OF HOW YOU THINK THEY CHAMBER. Measure the shoulder with an RCBS headspace comparator or use the dry erase marker trick when setting up the die for full sizing.
The OP had a case separation with some old unknown brass. It remains to be seen if he has a problem with the new brass.
Bumping back the shoulder 0.002 to 0.003 every time is usually for autoloaders and not needed with a bolt rifle.
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