Is 40 dead or dying?

[HATCH]

I wasn’t sure where to put this but here it is.

I have noticed that LE agencies pretty much have stopped using 40 SW and switched to 9mm. Which basically is what I have done.
I do have 2 glocks and a ruger p in 40.
As well as a UMP in 40 (i have 9mm,40,&45 conversions). The glocks have 9mm conversion barrels.

So my questions are
(1) Is there a market for range brass?
(2) is that market for range pickup as is or roll sized dirty or roll sized clean?

I ask because my friend is sitting on 20k + police range pickup and was asking me.
I honestly don’t know the answer and I don’t need the brass myself because I have 5k 180 grain HP reloads on the shelf. I haven’t shot any 40 in over a year.

I don’t mind roll sizing for him and even tumbling the brass but the only way to decap is to run it in a loader (550 or 650) so that is why I didn’t put that option.

[Finster101]

40 was always a solution in search of a problem to me. Never wanted one or saw an advantage to it. I see very few of them at the range anymore. When I empty the brass buckets, which I often do I also rarely if ever see 40 brass in it. I believe the fad has pretty much died out.

[nicholst55]

Several of the reloading component vendors buy range brass and give a store credit for it. That might be an option. Otherwise, the .40 S&W is a dying breed. There are still a lot of folks shooting it, but with no major LE contracts I expect it to fade away pretty quickly. The LEAs determined that the .40 S&W beats 9mm-size pistols to death after extensive firing, and some officers/agents still can't qualify with them because of the snappy recoil. When the FBI went back to 9mm, that was pretty much the death knell for .40 S&W.

Here's one example of a vendor buying range brass:

https://capitalcartridge.com/new-page/

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Is the 9mm more effective than the the .40 probably not, specific loadings help the 9 but a bigger, heavier bullet is probably better. Is it cheaper, easier to train to all those LEO's who are not gun folks, absolutely. From a logistics and training standpoint the 9 is superior. What is best in a gun fight - there are still knowledgeable folks carrying .45's. I like the .40, but again the 9 has the public opinion on its side. Take advantage of those inexpensive .40 police turn-ins and all that cheap brass. 40's are easy to load, less fussy than 9's and most are very accurate.

[walnut1704]

It's not dead. There's too large of an installed base for it to just disappear. But demand is way down. The folks that shoot a lot have moved on to other calibers. But somebody is buying all those surplus police guns.

Looks like it goes for about the same as 9mm... about $30 a thousand. It also looks like a slow-mover compared to 9mm. But that's all just a superficial assessment.

[ACC]

I have two .40 S&W and love them. I reload for them and shoot at least 250 rounds a month in them.

ACC

[Ed_Shot]

The 40 SW is not dead at my house.

[Delkal]

Never had one but if I see one for a bargain price I will get one. I don't care if it is "dead" and it will reload just fine. I even got a .40 mold in a lot buy so all I would need is a set of dies.

[Polymath]

The Fish and Game officers here mostly shoot 40 S&W and a few guys shoot 10 mm.
It's not going away soon.
I learned to shoot handgun with one.

[fatelk]

It’s dead only in the same way that .38 Special is dead. Police agencies abandoned the .38 a long time ago, but there are way too many guns out there for it to ever go away. Like the .38 Special, the .40 S&W will always be around, just nowhere near as popular as it once was.

I’ve never understood the .40 hate out there. Some people seem to have a seething hatred of it. Why? If you don’t like it, don’t use it. The forty was a good idea in its time, but the nine was later deemed to be “good enough” with good bullets, and easier for the average person to shoot. Makes sense to me. I still like them both, but if I had to choose only one, I’d pick the nine.

It’s a bad time to sell brass right now. Demand seems low. Ammo is cheap, common brass is plentiful, and common calibers seem barely worth loading. I’ve been liquidating a bunch myself, and have been seriously considering taking the last few buckets down to the scrap yard. Shipping is expensive and for the small amount over scrap price that it sells for, it’s really not worth the time and hassle of listing, selling, packing, shipping, etc..

I can’t seem to bring myself to scrap good brass though, so I haven’t done it yet.

Added: I have cleared out and sold a lot of brass on here in the last couple months, dealt with some really good people and received good feedback on it, so that makes it worth it right there.

[Texas by God]

Funny, the obsolete .40 S&W and the obsolete .38 Special are my main carry rounds.
The police trade ins are a great value.


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[36g]

The gun community is very fickle. While LE have been switching out .40's for 9's that leaves a lot of trade-ins for the shooting public who look for deals and aren't necessarily afraid of a bit of recoil. The .40 is a good round and I'll predict that in the not too distant future an ammo company will find a new loading that will be all the rage, perhaps something approaching a 10mm or .41 Mag performance.

I wouldn't write off the .40 yet...

[fatelk]

The .40 is a good round and I'll predict that in the not too distant future an ammo company will find a new loading that will be all the rage, perhaps something approaching a 10mm or .41 Mag performance.

It's ironic that everyone loves the 10mm now, and so many people mock the "40 Short & Weak", yet many/most of the factory 10mm loading are downloaded to .40 S&W levels.

I have to admit, I do like the 10mm too, always have since Miami Vice. I picked up a Rock Island high-cap 10mm and load my own to real 10mm levels (stout but not nuclear). It's a lot of fun to shoot.

[TNsailorman]

I don't have anything against the 40 but since I already owned 45acp's, I never saw any reason to go down to that caliber. I owned .41 magnums since they first came out if I wanted to go up in power. I also owned .38 Special and ,357 magnums. So, no place at the Inn for the .40. At least for me and my needs/wants. james

[Mk42gunner]

There's nothing really wrong with the .40 S&W, except is an in between round i.e. in between the 9mm and .45 ACP.

As I remember, it came about because the FBI decided that 9mm wasn't quite enough gun for serious anti-personnel use, and the .45 was a bit much for small concealable guns (and recoil for non-enthusiasts). Their solution? The fire breathing 10mm.

Which surprising no one was harder to shoot than a .45. Another solution-- download the ten.

Thinking people realized they could get the same ballistics from a smaller case, and fit it into 9mm sized platforms. Thus was born the .40 S&W, with help from Winchester.

In a full sized steel 1911, the .40 is a sweetheart to shoot, not so much in light concealable pistols. Now we are back to the 9mm is the latest and greatest.

Before any one thinks I am bashing either the 10mm or the .40, I have owned a few of them and shot many more. The only .40 I was ever really dissatisfied with was a S&W Model940. I bought it new, did a trigger and action job on it and shot it for a few months. after somewhere around 600 rounds, I noticed the bottom barrel lugs were digging into the aluminum frame. It went down the road quickly. I never had a problem with any of the steel framed EAA Witness (CZ75 clones) I and my buddy had, nor the Glocks.

I think the .40 S&W will fade away, but make periodic comebacks like the 10mm and .41 Magnum do.

Robert

[405grain]

Sometimes people do things backwards. When there's favorable conditions: 2A friendly politicians in office, lots of inventory, no (or not many) military conflicts, etc., there are lots of opportunities for people to stock up on shooting and reloading supplies. For whatever reason, while there isn't a sense of urgency people just don't do this. Then, later, when there are shortages caused by economic or political reasons, people clamor for the dwindling resources.

If there's one thing that has become a constant over the last couple of decades it's "there will always be another shortage". Times like the ones that we're currently in are when folks should be acquiring stuff that might become scarce later. I have a mega-ton of powder, bullets, molds & alloy, but these days I'm stacking deep on primers and brass. If you have buckets of brass hanging around and are thinking about taking it to a scrap yard, keep in mind that a couple of years from now that brass might be in high demand. That being said, it's your brass and you're free to do with it whatever you want. Not preaching, just saying that even if some brass isn't worth much today that doesn't mean that it won't be tomorrow.

[atfsux]

In my opinion there is nothing inherently "wrong" with .40S&W,...but as a 10mm user before .40S&W was invented, I was just always unimpressed. I might occasionally defer to using .40 ballistic performance in my 10mms, but I never desired to buy a .40 just so I could have a grip frame a few millimeters smaller than those of my 10mms. Maybe I would have felt differently if I had smaller hands?

I think the main reason .40 is falling out with so many departments is that it is just more powerful enough over 9mm (not much, but enough) that it requires more training to master the recoil and maintain adequate scores on qualifying courses. And that is enough of a pain in the butt for departments to deal with, and the performance over 9mm is not great enough, to justify the extra effort. Basically, institutions are saying 9mm is "good enough".

[Brassmonkey]

I don’t think it’s a dead caliber, but good luck selling that brass to anyone but a scrapyard.

I’ve listed several LFRB’s of clean same headstamp indoor lead free .40 for just a touch over 2.85 a lb and it wouldn’t move.

[Jeff Michel]

My favorite caliber in either my several handguns or my Ruger carbine. As to brass, I literally have a trash can full of .40 brass that over the years , no one wanted. A friend of mine has a reloading business, he takes his 40 brass straight to the scrap yard.

[Plate plinker]

Massad Ayoob did a interview with a LEO Keith Jones that used the forty in the real world. It's a very good interview on the U Tube with lots of great information.

We all know the bullet placement is paramount, but the guy stated speaks highly of the 40 especially before the improvements in the 9mm bullet designs. I think the officer survived FIVE gun fights.

Check it out.