Hodgdon data center. Missing starting loads, and quirky powders.

[Barry54]

I’ve noticed multiple instances of load data on the Hodgdon reloading data center where starting loads are absent. Most easily found are the rifle loads with TiteGroup powder. This is easily understandable, since the “maximum” loads are subsonic with jacketed bullets around 1050 FPS.

There’s the assumption out there to reduce 10% from max loads and work up. But Winchester 296, and H110 loads are only about a 6% reduction from max if I remember correctly. So please post other “quirky” powders that you are aware of.

By extension, I would assume 11FS falls into this category because it has similar velocity and is missing the 0 to become 110, which puts it on my radar…
Nothing to substantiate that, other than gut feeling.

And most recently I’ve been looking at handgun data using Longshot powder. All the 38 special loads were shown with copper non-tox bullets, which eat up a lot of empty space typically found in 38 Special loads. Then moving up to 38 Special +P data, starting loads are absent, but normal jacketed bullets such as the XTP are listed.

Is there no need to work up loads if one plans to load 38+P?

Are the rifle loads listed without starting loads not intended to be reduced? Excluding the easily found subsonic loads mentioned above?

Or are the missing starting loads carryover data from Accurate and other sources where it was assumed to reduce 10 percent from the text in their manuals. Was that lost or omitted when the data was entered into the Hodgdon reloading data center website?

[ulav8r]

I would think that +P loads would start just below max NON +P, compare the standard loads using the same powder.

[Kosh75287]

Once upon a time, W296 came with a recommendation that starting loads be no more than 3% lower than the maximum recommended load, lest combustion become non-uniform, etc. I think some users had problems with "hangfire" events.
When H110 and W296 one day became "one and the same", I took some serious heat for suggesting no more than a 3% charge reduction with H110, if made in 2008 or later.
From the 3% warning, I can at least intuit why it may not be a good thing to reduce charge weights with other slow(ish) burning propellants of similar composition or structure (magnum pistol ball powders, etc.). It is less easy to know why "do not reduce" is admonished with other faster, more moderately performing propellants. I know that I have seen this in data for certain lower-pressure (i.e., <15,000 p.s.i.) rounds in which a jacketed projectile on the heavy end of the weight spectrum is used. In one manual, the "do not reduce" recommendation was explained as a means of ensuring that heavier (158 gr. & up) JHPs/JSPs in non +P .38 Special rounds did not become lodged in forcing cones/barrels due to insufficient chamber pressure.
The above does not explain every "do not reduce" recommendation I have seen in pistol/revolver data, but it clarified most of them for me. Most of the ones that remained mysterious were in calibers I did not own, or using components that did not have.
I hope this helps.

[ACC]

I have always wondered why Hodgdon has no starting loads for 38 Special +P loads. I would also not reduce H110/W296 loads lower than 3% of max.

ACC

[Barry54]

Sorry y’all. I was just going off memory when I said six percent.

[ulav8r]

Just looked at the Hodgdon data site. For an example I selected 38 Special and 38 Special +P, a 158 gr bullet and HP38 powder.

For the Special it showed starting at 3.8 and a max of 4.3 gr. For the +P it showed a max of 4.6. Both bullets were the Hornady XTP.

Seems you could consider 4.3 grain as minimum. If you want to use the same or different components input your desired components and print out the results and compare to other sources if you can find them.

[Barry54]

IMG_9064.jpg

So here’s another instance. IMR 3031 in 30 Herrett only shows a compressed maximum load. This maximum load has a lower pressure than the maximum load of the other powder choices that are easier to fit into the cartridge.

Should this load be reduced? Or start with the compressed load?

[Delkal]

IMG_9064.jpg

So here’s another instance. IMR 3031 in 30 Herrett only shows a compressed maximum load. This maximum load has a lower pressure than the maximum load of the other powder choices that are easier to fit into the cartridge.

Should this load be reduced? Or start with the compressed load?

If the load is compressed with a light bullet and 200 FPS slower than the rest that is their way of saying the powder is way too slow for the cartridge. But they are not considering reduced loads for cast bullets and most IMR powders can be downloaded.

With some ball powders like H110 a no start load is considered a warning. Use max or find another powder.