Cost of Molds

[StrawHat]

I have heard there will be an added cost (tariff) to the overseas molds.

Kevin

[Lance Boyle]

Arsenal worked for the shop that made NOE's molds when Al first started out. After NOE bought their own lathes and moved away from having that shop contract with him, one of their employees started Arsenal. He may have had a noncompetitive agreement with the old shop but that did not extend to all employees starting a new business.

I believe that Accurate uses a different aluminum type of block than NOE. I do know that both are much more durable than Lee's.

That sounds about right. I recall a bit of discussion and venting in the past. A kerfuffle over mold blocks being rejected as off spec or something was the impetus of the fallout. Vague collections.

I have at least one from Accurate and one from Arsenal. Both are a little fatter casting than I wanted, that beats the alternative. At least now Accurate has where you can spec the tolerance desired. It’s all 0.002” but you spec if it’s +/- 0.001, +0.002/-0, or +0/-0.002”. For what I was wanting if I used the last spec I would have been happiest. Live and learn.

I have more than half a dozen NOE molds and am already missing the opportunity to buy more. MP molds have been fantastic but their catalog is as was mentioned more limited to the more popular bullets. I get it, it’s a business operation judgement call and why his molds are 1/3 less than Accurate. Pretty much so were NOE molds if you bought a catalog mold off the shelf. You got your money’s worth.

[MiHec]

I have heard there will be an added cost (tariff) to the overseas molds.

Kevin

Yes.......
As we speak we do not ship to USA.
There is big chaos about tariffs and no one knows actual cost and fees.
I'm waiting response from Fedex, UPS and Dhl.

[Lance Boyle]

Yes.......
As we speak we do not ship to USA.
There is big chaos about tariffs and no one knows actual cost and fees.
I'm waiting response from Fedex, UPS and Dhl.

Thanks for the update Miha!

If you ever wanted leave beautiful Slovenia and set up shop here…….yea, I wouldn’t either lol. We don’t have the Kranjska sausages to make life livable. Some day I will visit that region!

[jdgabbard]

Yes.......
As we speak we do not ship to USA.
There is big chaos about tariffs and no one knows actual cost and fees.
I'm waiting response from Fedex, UPS and Dhl.

Miha, thanks for chiming in! And I'm sure that has been a huge blow for you. Hopefully you can get it figured out soon. As for the Tariffs, I don't believe you guys have the same rate as China, but I just ordered something from there, and the tariff wasn't too bad. I think it was like $15 for a $45 item. Hopefully you get it figured out.

[StrawHat]

Yes.......
As we speak we do not ship to USA.
There is big chaos about tariffs and no one knows actual cost and fees.
I'm waiting response from Fedex, UPS and Dhl.

Or, find a Country that is willing to deal with this regime, sell your products to them, and get them to this Country.

Kevin

[Cris T]

For about $600 you can buy the equipment to make your own molds.

[GregLaROCHE]

One more reason I’m in the process of building my own CNC milling machine… I can think of a thousand reasons to have one. And being able to make my own molds is just one of them. Every week I’m one piece closer. And even if it takes me a year to complete, I’ll be that much closer to being able to handle my own jobs…

You don’t necessarily need a CNC machine to make your own moulds, but if you want the excuse, go for it. I wonder if one day, we will be 3D printing boolits.

[jdgabbard]

You don’t necessarily need a CNC machine to make your own moulds, but if you want the excuse, go for it. I wonder if one day, we will be 3D printing boolits.

I know I don't NEED the CNC to make molds. The CNC is because I'm already into 3D printing and other hobbies that utilize CAD. It's just the logical next step. Making a home made machine capable of making something like molds is the real goal. Planned work space is going to be roughly 10" x 10" x 6". So this isn't going to be a large machine. More like a bench top hobby tool.

[MiHec]

Miha, thanks for chiming in! And I'm sure that has been a huge blow for you. Hopefully you can get it figured out soon. As for the Tariffs, I don't believe you guys have the same rate as China, but I just ordered something from there, and the tariff wasn't too bad. I think it was like $15 for a $45 item. Hopefully you get it figured out.

Problem right now is that big guys like UPS, Fedex and Dhl do not know how to proceed the parcels....real chaos... Still waiting for answers from them. In the mean time I sent a "test" parcel and we will see in a day or two.....

[jdgabbard]

Problem right now is that big guys like UPS, Fedex and Dhl do not know how to proceed the parcels....real chaos... Still waiting for answers from them. In the mean time I sent a "test" parcel and we will see in a day or two.....

Well, to back up your information, I will say that DHL wanted like $40 for tariffs on that order from China in addition to postage. But sending it standard mail it was only like $15 in addition to postage.

[justindad]

MP has good prices. The two cavity RCBS has become more expensive than a two cavity Saeco from Grafs… so Saeco is the best option for iron molds (Lyman molds, of course, don’t count because they are garbage).

[MiHec]

Well, to back up your information, I will say that DHL wanted like $40 for tariffs on that order from China in addition to postage. But sending it standard mail it was only like $15 in addition to postage.

Problem is that postal offices are not sending in US at all because of this chaos. You can only send letters....

[jdgabbard]

Problem is that postal offices are not sending in US at all because of this chaos. You can only send letters....

Interesting. Well, I’m sure they simply don’t want to have to send a package and the tariff change after they’ve already calculated it. It sucks. But I understand the hesitation.

[redhawk0]

Miha....I purchased a mold from you just 2 months ago...it sounds like I purchased at just the right time. Since tariffs are keeping shipments in limbo to the US...I hope this all calms down soon so I can place another order soon.

redhawk

[405grain]

jdgabbard: Good on you for wanting to machine your own molds. Long ago I tried my hand at making my own molds on a manual Bridgeport mill. It wasn't easy. For every feature you're just keeping an eye on the digital readout. The slightest mistake and that mold is scrapped (actually it isn't - you just need to use those mold blocks for a bigger bullet). Because it was close to impossible to do by hand, machining the ojive was done with a plunge cut using a special made cutter. There were lots of ways to mess up.

Going the CNC route would be a much better option. It would be easier to make prototypes, and then make design corrections. In example: if you machine a mold, and then when you try it out you discover that it's casting, say, .002" undersized, making that correction would be simple. Making multiple molds of the same design would also be much easier than trying to machine individual molds on manual tooling. Changing features, like making one mold with lube grooves, and a second version that has a similar bullet without grooves for PC would only require a little programming. Making a shank for gas checks, Designing molds for hollowpoint bullets, designing everything from full wadcutters to spire points, would all be easier using CNC. One suggestion: on your setup, if you incorporate a hole or some type of opening(s) into the base on your machine that your mold blocks rest against you'll be able to bore thru holes in the blocks if you want to make molds that take a hollowpoint pin(s).

Based on a calibrated eyeball, and possibly a taste test, I think that Lee uses 6061 aluminum for their mold blocks, while NOE uses 7075. If that's the case, 7075 cuts much more cleanly, gives more accurate cavities, and is more durable.

[jdgabbard]

jdgabbard: Good on you for wanting to machine your own molds. Long ago I tried my hand at making my own molds on a manual Bridgeport mill. It wasn't easy. For every feature you're just keeping an eye on the digital readout. The slightest mistake and that mold is scrapped (actually it isn't - you just need to use those mold blocks for a bigger bullet). Because it was close to impossible to do by hand, machining the ojive was done with a plunge cut using a special made cutter. There were lots of ways to mess up.

Going the CNC route would be a much better option. It would be easier to make prototypes, and then make design corrections. In example: if you machine a mold, and then when you try it out you discover that it's casting, say, .002" undersized, making that correction would be simple. Making multiple molds of the same design would also be much easier than trying to machine individual molds on manual tooling. Changing features, like making one mold with lube grooves, and a second version that has a similar bullet without grooves for PC would only require a little programming. Making a shank for gas checks, Designing molds for hollowpoint bullets, designing everything from full wadcutters to spire points, would all be easier using CNC. One suggestion: on your setup, if you incorporate a hole or some type of opening(s) into the base on your machine that your mold blocks rest against you'll be able to bore thru holes in the blocks if you want to make molds that take a hollowpoint pin(s).

Based on a calibrated eyeball, and possibly a taste test, I think that Lee uses 6061 aluminum for their mold blocks, while NOE uses 7075. If that's the case, 7075 cuts much more cleanly, gives more accurate cavities, and is more durable.

I'm basing my design on a cartesian design. In other words, X and Z axis on a fixed Gantry, Y axis on the bed. The machine is being framed out using 1.5" aluminum t-slot extrusion. Rails for the bed are 20mm, with a 16mm ballscrew with a 4mm/rotation feed rate. I'll probably go 16mm rails and 12mm ballscrew for the X and Z axis. I'll be using NEMA23 motors, so they'll have a fair bit of torque for a desktop sized machine. Currently the projected work space is going to be about 10x10x6, with an aluminum extrusion bed with t-slots. I still have a lot of work to do, and need to have some custom mounts machined for a few items before I can test the bed. I don't anticipate it to be working until mid next year...as I'm planning as I go - part of the learning curve....

That said, I have already been planning out how I intend to do the molds... I am thinking that in many ways it's going to be easier to machine mold blocks in half. I'm shooting for an accuracy of of about 0.001-0.002". And if I can get that, for what I am going to use the machine for, it should be accurate enough. With the right endmills I could also do bore through type machining. But my goal for that type of stuff is going to be for pistol mostly. So I don't see a huge need for accuracy above that. I mean, I have molds from Lee during the 2008 time frame, and those things were off by hundreds of an inch in some cases....

I am not a machinist, and actually have never really worked on any type of metal machining equipment. But I do have a pretty good understanding of CNC. And I know there is going to be a steep curve, as well as a lot of adjustments to get the machine dialed in. I'll either succeed or fail, but whichever one I'll learn a thing or two...