Stick-On WW BHN Discrepancy

[jdgabbard]

Something really weird happened today while testing the result of smelting some ingots from a half bucket of stick ons.

I had smelted these about two months ago with the intent of using these for soft boolits. I had been saving them for quite some time, and had gone through the bucket by hand. After smelting and fluxing, they had been cast into 1lb ingots.

Today, I broke out my drawing pencil set to determine the approximate BHN of these ingots. I started off with a 6B, no scratch. 5B, no scratch….2B, getting really worried. B, the ingots finally has a nice little scratch from the pencil.

I pull up my chart that I had saved for this, and to my surprise, that’s around 13 BHN!! From Stick-On WWs! That would make this batch of stick ons be basically the same allow as clip-ons. They do still appear shiny, indicating some tin in the mix. Though they were that typical dull color prior to smelting.

Has anyone had this happen to them before?

[Feral American]

Nothing weird, it just doesn't follow the same rule of lore it might have followed a decade or three ago. Yes, there are differences in hardness of stick-ons, and that means different chemistry. It's quite a range actually. The ones in post #42 will really jack up your mix if you have a lot of them, and you want your batch on the side side. Honestly. Stick-ons are the hard way to get soft lead.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...e-on-Stick-Ons

[jdgabbard]

Interesting. I don’t think there were much, if any of those in there. Pretty much all the ones I remember seeing were unpainted, and dull in color. This is the first time I’ve had this issue. All my previous batches of stickons have been about as soft as you can get.


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[Feral American]

The only thing I can say then is you got a smidge of ZAMAK in there. It doesn't take much at all to really make a difference. I think it's said that lead will tolerate up to 2% before you see any issues of contamination.

In fact, I did an experiment not long ago with a batch of those tiny little clip-on weights. The ones that are a pain to cut test because the juice kinda isn't worth the squeeze. I went ahead and left the ZAMAK ones in the batch, the whole thing weighed 50 or 60 lbs, and there might have been a small handful of ZAMAK in it. I figured what the heck, the Rule of Lore says they'll just float to the top. Right?

Nope, they disappeared in that melt just like any of the lead ones did. All I got floating was the steel clips. And no, I didn't have the pot too hot because I've melted down zinc weights by themselves and I know how hot things need to get to melt only zinc. That's why I preach about cut testing EVERYthing.

That batch is now in possession of a friend of mine, a member here, who is going to try to make some shot with it. I forget the Bhn but it was good and hard. Cast nice ingots too.

I'm betting heavy odds you missed a couple or a dozen little zinc stick-ons......

[poppy42]

Yep. Not sure granddaddy’s stick on wheel weights anymore. There are definitely lead stick on wheel weights that are as hard or harder than clip on wheel weight. And I emphasize lead! First time I ran into him was about five or six years ago. I too thought they was zinc or had zinc in them until I did the old acid test, not saying it doesn’t exist, but I’ve certainly yet to find anything with zinc in it that doesn’t react to acid. I can honestly say the majority of the stick on wheel weights I now run into are of the hard variety. So much so then unless I find the ones that are the old style soft lead stick on I don’t even separate them anymore. What are their actual hardness? I couldn’t tell you I don’t concern myself with that. It’s just numbers on the page. My philosophy is if my bullets do what I want them to do there of the right hardness! If they flatten out and deform too much they’re too soft. If they fly apart/explode upon impact then they’re too hard either way I adjust my alloy accordingly. I’m not some no it all and I certainly don’t profess to know everything,(about anything) but I have been doing this long enough that I can pretty much get an idea of what the range of hardness my boollets are. I test them on wet newspaper or occasionally jugs full of water if they don’t do what I want them to do like I said I adjust accordingly. Especially if they’re going to be used for range fodder. I mean, I’m not a bench shooter, I’m not trying to reach out six or 700 yards with Cast boolets, and unfortunately, my hunting days have very possibly come to an end based on some physical limitations. So a large portion of my cast are used for punching paper and ringing steel. If they’re not leading my barrels or exploding on impact, I don’t care what the bhn is! It’s not like I don’t have a hardness tester. I just choose not to bother using it. Seriously Sometimes I think we put too much into this casting Boolets. I mean man has been casting projectiles out of lead for someplace about 600 years. I’m sure our ancestors weren’t worrying about the exact hardness of their Boolets! But all that is just me. If someone else finds the need to know exactly what the BHN of their cast projectiles are that’s their prerogative. And I would certainly tell them not to.
Back to the OP situation yes there are certainly some seriously hard stick on wheel weights.

[Rickf1985]

I have said for years all stick ons are not soft. When I had my shop I got them new in the box and they were quite a bit harder to bend to shape. That was in the 80's so not 100 years old.

[lightman]

I'm not seeing the hard stick-ons that you guys are seeing. At least not yet! I melt all of mine together except for the painted ones with the raised letters and the ridge around the edge. XRF test show my ingots are between 98 and 99% pure lead with small amounts of Tin, Antimony and trace of Arsenic. But I am very picky when sortig my weights. I see very few Zinc stick-ons but lots of steel ones. I also smelt in batches of 350-400# and have sent BNE samples to test. His test on my samples are almost identical to the examples he tested that are in his sticky.