I won't give up on Lee 200gr SWC in 1911 - but I'm sure struggling

[45DUDE]

I said in an earlier post my bullets didn't ding but I just let the slide slam on this one two times and it set the bullet back .006 so it has to be hitting and looking close I can see a small dent on the end and a slightest place on the mouth of the brass where it chambered. I am going to call this normal. I run a #14 or #15 spring with a 200 grain boolit and a mid range load. If you have a heavy recoil spring a softer spring may make your problem better. Here is a photo of the Mec gar magazine with the crimp I like.

[bruce381]

get or try a cobra or wilson mag everything else looks fine

[gwpercle]

Try this ... Leave a thumbnail Thickness of boolit Top Driving Band exposed above the case mouth ... If you don't have this much top driving band exposed ...
the rounds will never feed correctly ... the Tickness of Your Thumbnail ...no more !
Trust Me ... the wadcutter boolits need this to do right ...
Gary

[gidaeon]

UPDATE:

Learned two things today: 1) I think most Meplat edge gouging is actually AFTER chambering and upon manual extraction based on shinning light in the barrel. 2) the MEC-Gar springs have WAY weaker spring than Wilson ETM.

I think testing my dummies with only 1 round in the Mec-Gar mag contributed to failed chambering vs full mag and using the Wilson with only 1 dummy loaded.

Funny enough the Wilson mag comes with directions that clearly say for reloaders “Maximum reliability comes from H&G #68 200gr SWC” [not ball!] using 1.250 OAL that was pretty specific.
Granted the Lee mold is not an exact clone, ..but close enough IMO.

My plunk test sometimes fails at 1.25 with mixed brass so I’ll go a bit shorter. I anticipate it will work great except for Mec-Gar near end of mag maybe.

I’ve never had guns so picky with mags and always thought/assumed mec-gar was excellent as it’s used by many oems for years.

[forrest]

Typically when a 1911 is "picky" with mags, it's actually not the mags.

I've have a couple 10-round shooting star mags that have worked flawlessly in several different 1911's over the decades. Most of time I use plain old metalform mags. They're cheap and work flawlessly with everything I cast or swage. Awhile back I decided to thin the herd and sold off a bunch of molds. I ended up keeping these 3 molds/cast bullet for the 1911/45acp. The middle bullet is a h&g #68 clone (1.250" oal), the other 2 have shorter oal's.
[IMG][/IMG]

Playing around with those bullets and mixed range brass looking for blammo ammo loads.
[IMG][/IMG]

If your bullet's nose is hitting, it will affect accuracy. If the noses don't hit you'll end up with groups like these at close range (50ft). That's 3 different bullets, mixed range brass & the same 4.3gr load for the 3 different bullets with all 3 doing less than 1" 5-shot groups.
[IMG][/IMG]

[gidaeon]

Typically when a 1911 is "picky" with mags, it's actually not the mags.

I've have a couple 10-round shooting star mags that have worked flawlessly in several different 1911's over the decades. Most of time I use plain old metalform mags. They're cheap and work flawlessly with everything I cast or swage. Awhile back I decided to thin the herd and sold off a bunch of molds. I ended up keeping these 3 molds/cast bullet for the 1911/45acp. The middle bullet is a h&g #68 clone (1.250" oal), the other 2 have shorter oal's.
[IMG][/IMG]

Playing around with those bullets and mixed range brass looking for blammo ammo loads.
[IMG][/IMG]

If your bullet's nose is hitting, it will affect accuracy. If the noses don't hit you'll end up with groups like these at close range (50ft). That's 3 different bullets, mixed range brass & the same 4.3gr load for the 3 different bullets with all 3 doing less than 1" 5-shot groups.
[IMG][/IMG]

In your experience when it’s not really the mag, what IS or was the problem?

[forrest]

As I posted earlier (post # 36), I'd be taking a hard look at the mag catch.

On the side of any mag is a slot. When you insert the mag into the mag well and send it home/all the way up. The latch on the mag catch goes into that slot in the mags holding it in place. If that latch allows the mag to sit low, the rounds when stripped from the mag will nose dive/hit low on the frame.

Multiple mags from different makers and the same problem tends to lean towards what's holding them in place. IC, the mag catches latch.

In every 1911 I ever owned when you hit/press the mag catch the mags pop out of the mag well. They don't use gravity to fall or slowly come out.

[Bigslug]

Again, I'll suggest you try a mag with GI feed lips. The one pictured through the ejection port of 45DUDE's gun on Post#31 shows it pretty well.

A potential problem with parallel wadcutter feed lips is that they keep the round held down until the rim of the case clears them, and then the round suddenly releases and shoot up. The nose of the round really has no choice but to plow into the feed ramp, taking damage commensurate with the angle of impact.

The tapered GI lips allow the nose of the round to pivot upward and the rim to rise more gradually, until it is handed off from the lips to the extractor. Mauser controlled feed, writ small.

In terms of feeding, the HG68 is a hardball simulator. Try a hardball mag with it.

[barsik]

it's pretty hard to feed rounds into the barrel without the point of the bullet taking a bit of damage from the feed ramp in the 1911 pattern handguns. that relatively minor damage doesn't bother me unless it causes a dramatic loss in accuracy beyond 50 yds. the only guns that I know of that don't use a feedramp are the high standard military series of rimfire pistols. when those magazines end up causing problems they can be a bit of a bear to solve.

[Texxut]

This is what works for me, without fail, in both stock and tuned 1911s.

I have found with my four Tisas, and this same mold, 1.250” OAL was a must. They look odd, but work like a champ! These loads look too short to me.

[gidaeon]

UPDATE:

After testing firing a hundred or so I experienced intermittent feeding failures (say under 2 out of 8) regardless of which magazine brand or how many rounds in the mag. I am now considering extractor tension as perhaps being too tight, as I noticed I cannot shake empty cases out from the extractor when manually tested no matter how hard I shake.

I appreciate all the responses here. So much to learn. I’m still committed to winning this.

Since I had leading at front of chamber AND got something hitting my face (not sure if powder or tiny lead bits - I think the latter) I obviously have a sizing or crimp issue

I also learned the Wilson ETM performs an “uncontrolled feed” vs the co start points of contact for old ball. Is 200gr SWC intended for “controlled feed”?

[jsizemore]

If you want to check extractor tension all you need is a trigger pull gauge and some dental floss. Tie the floss a bit ahead of the extractor groove. Loop in the other end lets you use the hook of the trigger gauge. Kuhnhausen says 3.5-4.5 lbs for ball and 3.5-4 for wadcutters. I set them all in the range of 3.5-4. I put a slight bevel on the extractor groove for the cartridge rim and polish so the extractor doesn't bite into the cartridge rim. I also fit the firing pin stop to the extractor if I find the extractor is clocking. If you have minimal clearance between the edges of the extractor and the cartridge groove and you have clocking going on then you'll potentially have ejection and feeding issues which causes timing issues.

[gidaeon]

If you want to check extractor tension all you need is a trigger pull gauge and some dental floss. Tie the floss a bit ahead of the extractor groove. Loop in the other end lets you use the hook of the trigger gauge. Kuhnhausen says 3.5-4.5 lbs for ball and 3.5-4 for wadcutters. I set them all in the range of 3.5-4. I put a slight bevel on the extractor groove for the cartridge rim and polish so the extractor doesn't bite into the cartridge rim. I also fit the firing pin stop to the extractor if I find the extractor is clocking. If you have minimal clearance between the edges of the extractor and the cartridge groove and you have clocking going on then you'll potentially have ejection and feeding issues which causes timing issues.

I was about to cut the base of brass and solder wire to use a DIY pull gauge copying the Weigand brand to work with my pull gauge - that method is traditionally 25-28oz (1.5lb) to slip out. How come the floss method (I’ll try it!) Is so much heavier at 3.5lbs+ expected?

Ignore the dent from prior misfeed, but this pic is why I think mine may be slightly tight. I’m thinking base should be a little more “equal light” and less cockeyed with a smidge less tension maybe?
IMG_2662.jpg

[jsizemore]

Floss ain't elastic. I figure Kuhnhausen knows more than me and the folks I learned this stuff from were military and combat shooters. The 1911 is a battle weapon.

[barsik]

UPDATE:

After testing firing a hundred or so I experienced intermittent feeding failures (say under 2 out of 8) regardless of which magazine brand or how many rounds in the mag. I am now considering extractor tension as perhaps being too tight, as I noticed I cannot shake empty cases out from the extractor when manually tested no matter how hard I shake.

I appreciate all the responses here. So much to learn. I’m still committed to winning this.

Since I had leading at front of chamber AND got something hitting my face (not sure if powder or tiny lead bits - I think the latter) I obviously have a sizing or crimp issue

I also learned the Wilson ETM performs an “uncontrolled feed” vs the co start points of contact for old ball. Is 200gr SWC intended for “controlled feed”?

don't mess with the extractor tension until you have tried every other variable which brings me to ask you if you have seated the bullets to get a 1.250 COAL as many members have have already suggested. when I was monkeying with my scoremaster it really didn't like the short seating depth and had a tendency to drive the cartridge into the top of the feedramp/bottom of the chamber, leaving a crescent shaped dent near the top of the case. I did a LOT of experimentation with that gun and when I seated the bullets out to where they would just fit in the magazine everything came together like magic. the rounds might look a little odd, but the end result is definitely worth it.
now for my second observation: take a magnifying glass and look at the bottom edge of the extractor. it should have a nice rounded contour to allow the rim of the case to slide past it on its way up the face of the slide. take a case and simulate what happens when the round gets stripped off the magazine. Hint: it comes off at a bit of an angle and the rim needs enough clearance between the extractor hook and the slide to get up into the chamber. if you want, remove the extractor and gently polish it with super fine emery cloth. BTW, on my gun the extractor tension also holds my cases very tightly, I cannot shake them loose. this is the way after 30,000 rounds or more. the finish on the face of the slide must be very smooth with no horizontal tooling marks and make sure the firing pin hole doesn't have a burr on it. take a look and get back to us please.