Boat keel

[Ecramer]

I recently discovered that a friends sons operate a sailboat refurbishment and scrap operation. Yesterday we harvested about 250 lbs. of lead from a 1700-lb keel. We have the invitation to come get more.
Today I turned about a third of it into ingots.

Notes for those who have similar opportunities:
Boat keels contain j-shaped bolts to bind them to the boat. Be aware of them as you saw the lead apart.

We used a small chainsaw to cut pieces out of the keel. This worked well, but is a bit messy so check with who ever is in charge on the issue of sawdust (it wasn’t a problem in our rural area).

The lead seems harder than pure lead. I haven’t yet checked the Brinnel hardness, but it “thumbnails” more like Linotype.

This is good clean alloy that didn’t require fluxing to make good ingots and generated almost no slag.

We intend to go back for more.

[Feral American]

Boat keel is a crap shoot at best... .

Best case scenario is hook up with someone who deals with vintage boats and doesn't fool with one unless there's a build sheet with it that specs out the lead used by the manufacturer.

Worst case scenario is trying to use keel lead that was poured in a sand pit on the beach by a bunch of drunken bubbas throwing whatever would melt into the pot. About on the same level as "race car ballast weight".

Get your keel lead tested with XrF, and then you'll know what you have.......

[poppy42]

Usually, the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not it’s got any zinc in it. This is highly unlikely, though if whoever cast, it knew what he was doin. Zinc in a boat kill is not a good idea due to electrolysis! If it was zinc, they’d be replacing it to often. If you are that concerned, just do the acid test if it doesn’t bubble it’s not zonk it’s some kind of lead or lead alloy. Never had a pleasure of getting my own lead boat keel, but I have been gifted ingots from one in the past no issues whatsoever with what I received although I did have to add a bit of tint to it just to help with flow out. Usually quite soft. I’ve had considerably more issues with dive weights as opposed to lead boat keels. I’ve talked to quite a few fire departments that cast their own dive weights for the rescue divers. They really don’t care what they’re made out of as long as they have the weight they wind up, losing them all the time anyway. As for your concerns about sand or other garbage in it who cares once it melts, it’s either gonna sink to the bottom of the pot or float on the top! Flux and skim off the garbage and you’re good to go. Do you have any idea what kind of garbage sand dirt and crap that stuck to wheel weights? You’re trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist!

[Feral American]

Usually, the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not it’s got any zinc in it. This is highly unlikely, though if whoever cast, it knew what he was doin. Zinc in a boat kill is not a good idea due to electrolysis! If it was zinc, they’d be replacing it to often. If you are that concerned, just do the acid test if it doesn’t bubble it’s not zonk it’s some kind of lead or lead alloy. Never had a pleasure of getting my own lead boat keel, but I have been gifted ingots from one in the past no issues whatsoever with what I received although I did have to add a bit of tint to it just to help with flow out. Usually quite soft. I’ve had considerably more issues with dive weights as opposed to lead boat keels. I’ve talked to quite a few fire departments that cast their own dive weights for the rescue divers. They really don’t care what they’re made out of as long as they have the weight they wind up, losing them all the time anyway. As for your concerns about sand or other garbage in it who cares once it melts, it’s either gonna sink to the bottom of the pot or float on the top! Flux and skim off the garbage and you’re good to go. Do you have any idea what kind of garbage sand dirt and crap that stuck to wheel weights? You’re trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist!

Who is expressing concerns about sand or other garbage?

Also, many many MANY sailboats live and die without seeing the first drop of salt water. The Great Lakes and many other fresh water bodies around the world have rather robust populations of sail boaters, with zero concern about electrolytic galvanic corrosion, and thus a homemade keel could definitely contain a LOT of zinc if someone had access to a lot of mixed wheelweights.

[jsizemore]

Who is expressing concerns about sand or other garbage?

Also, many many MANY sailboats live and die without seeing the first drop of salt water. The Great Lakes and many other fresh water bodies around the world have rather robust populations of sail boaters, with zero concern about electrolytic galvanic corrosion, and thus a homemade keel could definitely contain a LOT of zinc if someone had access to a lot of mixed wheelweights.

Then why are there zinc anodes in hot water heaters?

[poppy42]

Who is expressing concerns about sand or other garbage?

Also, many many MANY sailboats live and die without seeing the first drop of salt water. The Great Lakes and many other fresh water bodies around the world have rather robust populations of sail boaters, with zero concern about electrolytic galvanic corrosion, and thus a homemade keel could definitely contain a LOT of zinc if someone had access to a lot of mixed wheelweights.

You ever hear of a wet cell battery lots of electrolysis goes on in air and that’s distilled water.

[Feral American]

Then why are there zinc anodes in hot water heaters?

Water heaters and how they're made have exactly what to do with bullet casting?

"Zinc anode rods are placed in water heaters as a sacrificial component to prevent the tank from corroding, a process called galvanic corrosion. These rods are more electrically active than the steel tank and corrode themselves instead of the tank, which significantly extends the water heater's lifespan. Zinc rods are particularly effective at neutralizing the hydrogen sulfide gas that causes a "rotten egg" smell in water."

[Feral American]

You ever hear of a wet cell battery lots of electrolysis goes on in air and that’s distilled water.

"A wet cell battery does not perform electrolysis; rather, it is an electrochemical cell that generates electricity through a spontaneous chemical reaction, where a liquid electrolyte like sulfuric acid facilitates the movement of ions between lead and lead dioxide plates. During charging, the process is reversed, but it is still a battery function, not electrolysis, as external electrical energy is used to convert lead sulfate back into the original reactants, not to decompose a substance into its constituent elements by passing a current through it. Electrolysis, in contrast, is the non-spontaneous decomposition of a substance using an external electric current, such as breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen."

[Feral American]

I think the point being missed here is to know what your buying.

Avoid the homemade keels and stick with the lead that can be verified coming from a commercial boat manufacturer.

[P Flados]

Scrap lead is scrap lead. Even though the alloy mix may be a mystery, much of it has been used to make some fine boolits.

If you do not want to try to make use of scrap lead, feel free to pay the extra cost that comes with getting known alloy stuff.

I am not going to tell someone to either use scrap or to not use scrap. We are grown ups and we can make our own choices. For those that do score some low (or no) cost scrap that works well, I share your joy. I will admit to looking at the "Location" of the OP hoping that it would be nearby.

I find it distasteful for someone to go on a soap box and essentially bash another caster that is happy with his score of what sounds like good scrap lead.

I have bought lead at a local scrapyard and I have bought sailboat keel lead from a friend of a family member. I got all kinds of stuff from the scrap yard including some chunks of boat keel. The first batch of boat keel lead I got (at the scrap yard) was great. Good harness and worked like a charm. The second was Ok but a little soft. It also had a lot of steel threaded rod in it that made it more challenging to cut it up. I think it was made with a mix of scrap lead and pure lead. I mixed in some harder lead to get it where I wanted it. The random scrap lead all worked just fine, but again adjusting for desired hardness comes with the territory.

With PC, I find I can make due with less hardness even for things like plain base full power 357 Max and gas checked boolits for 300 BO. I am entirely willing to go for 8 - 10 BHN as "good enough" for the vast majority of my casting needs (typically between 5k & 10K boolits per year). Sometimes I add a little tin if needed because I do not like the way a batch is filling out.

If you come across some boat keel lead and it is close to the hardness you want, you can expect it to work fine.

Most boat keels that you will find were made more than 15 years ago. The vast majority of scrap lead available at the time had little or no zinc content.

I may need to shop for scrap lead in a year or two. I will not hesitate to consider any random boat keel lead I come across as a potential choice.

[poppy42]

"A wet cell battery does not perform electrolysis; rather, it is an electrochemical cell that generates electricity through a spontaneous chemical reaction, where a liquid electrolyte like sulfuric acid facilitates the movement of ions between lead and lead dioxide plates. During charging, the process is reversed, but it is still a battery function, not electrolysis, as external electrical energy is used to convert lead sulfate back into the original reactants, not to decompose a substance into its constituent elements by passing a current through it. Electrolysis, in contrast, is the non-spontaneous decomposition of a substance using an external electric current, such as breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen."

Wow, you copy off of Google real well

[jsizemore]

Then why are there zinc anodes in hot water heaters?

My point being water heaters don't see a drop of salt water and zinc is still used to reduce galvanic action.

[Feral American]

Wow, you copy off of Google real well

The exact same Google that is available to you.

[Feral American]

My point being water heaters don't see a drop of salt water and zinc is still used to reduce galvanic action.

Of? The steel tank, and reduce the smell of Sulphur in the water.

Now, as long as you want to go down the water supply rabbit hole let's ask why aren't zinc anodes used in water supply lines and well casings.

The answer to that, answers your question about water heaters, and confirms why sacrificial anodes aren't necessary in fresh water boats.......

[Feral American]

I find it distasteful for someone to go on a soap box and essentially bash another caster that is happy with his score of what sounds like good scrap lead.

.

Your soap box appears to be much bigger than anyone else's.

I've not bashed anyone, I've stated facts. Warning about zinc is fair game within the context of the discussion, and the venue for that matter. And yes, I've found zinc in what was sold to me as boat keel. Which is probably exactly why I brought it up. ZAMAK to be specific, no doubt coming from wheelweights poured into a homemade boat keel. Let me ask, do you allow zinc content in your bullet alloys?

[ascast]

I did not know that galvanic corrosion was dependent on having salt water. I know you can not ( should not) use steel (iron base) nails to secure an aluminum roof or versa visa. I can tell you there ain't no salt water falling out of the sky anywhere around here for 200 miles.

re: zinc - it does not flow well at all - add more tin. It may get cost prohibitive.
I do not believe galvanic corrosion exist between lead and zinc. I never saw any evidence in zinc alloy I once used and still have some-40 years old. What about the Harvey Protects Bore bullet that had a Zinc
washer inserted in the mold prior to casting? Never heard word one about galvanic corrosion in that application either.
so school me up

[Feral American]

From Google, (note the use of quotation marks)

"Salt accelerates galvanic corrosion by increasing the electrical conductivity of the electrolyte (like water), which speeds up the flow of electrons between dissimilar metals. Salt contains chloride ions that act as a catalyst, breaking down protective oxide layers on metals and making electrochemical reactions more efficient. This creates a more aggressive environment where the anodic metal corrodes faster, and the protective effect on the cathodic metal is enhanced.
How Salt Facilitates Galvanic Corrosion
1. Enhances Electrolyte Conductivity:
Dissimilar metals need an electrolyte (a substance that conducts electricity) to complete an electrochemical cell and allow for the flow of electrons and ions. Saltwater is an excellent electrolyte because the dissolved salts, particularly chloride ions, increase its ability to conduct electrical current.
2. Accelerates Chemical Reactions:
The chloride ions in salt are highly reactive and act as a catalyst, speeding up the corrosion process. They help to disrupt the natural protective oxide layers that form on metal surfaces, making the metals more susceptible to attack.
3. Creates a Battery-Like Effect:
In a moist, salty environment, two dissimilar metals in contact act like a galvanic cell or battery. The more active metal (the anode) will corrode, losing electrons, while the less active metal (the cathode) will be protected as it accepts those electrons.
4. Promotes Dissolution:
The process forms corrosive products like zinc chloride or zinc oxide, which may wash away, exposing fresh zinc to the salt and water, continuing the cycle of corrosion.
In essence, salt doesn't initiate galvanic corrosion but acts as a highly effective accelerator, transforming a potentially slow process into a rapid and aggressive one."

[ascast]

OK so I'm guessing that if salt got on the keel block from salt water, over a 20 life span, we would see actual corrosion-like rust on iron. true? If so-you could identify zinc contamination by the corrosion buildup-maybe?

[lightman]

Things like sail boat keels, race car weights, dive belt weights, ect can be made from any type of lead. This doesn't mean that its not useful. Just be cautious when buying. Personally I would not pay over scrap value. That way I could sell any bad alloy to the scrap yard and recover my money.

[jsizemore]

Of? The steel tank, and reduce the smell of Sulphur in the water.

Now, as long as you want to go down the water supply rabbit hole let's ask why aren't zinc anodes used in water supply lines and well casings.

The answer to that, answers your question about water heaters, and confirms why sacrificial anodes aren't necessary in fresh water boats.......

Water lines have been plastic for a long time except at the pump control piping and well casing (around here anyway) doesn't extend into the water column. Most of that is changing to plastic.The few windmills I work on haven't had anodes.