Another broken gun

[dtknowles]

I bought another broken gun. Maybe some of you are like me and just can't leave a broken gun alone. I have been jumping from one project to another. This time it is a Hopkins and Allen top break 6 shot 32 on what seems to be a 38 caliber frame. The cylinders are bored straight thru empty .327 mag brass will chamber but 32 H&R ammo the bullets protrude so, I am thinking this is a good thing.

It has almost all the original nickel finish, the grips show very little wear and no chips or cracks or missing pieces. For what I paid for the gun it would almost be worth it just for the grips. The bore is dark with strong rifling and some small nasty spots that I hope clean out. The chambers are clean and shiny. It has a cute little button I have never seen before that holds the barrel latch in the open position.

20250830_190400.jpg

It was missing the hinge pin and cam for the ejector. Double action works fine. It has a firing pin fixed to the hammer and won't hold half or full cock if it was ever meant too, so it would need to be carried with just five rounds as the firing pin would be resting on a primer if you loaded 6. The lockup is tight. I made a functional hinge pin and am going to make some ammo using 327 mag brass and hollow base wadcutters. This gun seems pretty stout considering it is a 32 on a 38 frame. Everything on this gun is bigger than on my 32 cal. top break pocket pistols. I am confident it will be fine with full power 32 S&W Long loads.

Tim

[shooting on a shoestring]

I think it’s a great thing you do, rehabilitating old abused guns. You get some satisfaction out of bring in them back to life, and there’ll be some people in the future that will enjoy pieces you fixed. Good on you!

[armoredman]

@LAGS, right up your alley sir.

[barnetmill]

On using smokeless loads try to find out if the gun is made of steel, specifically steel that is intended for smokeless.

If you are not sure that it was intended for smokeless I would only load very mild loads or use black powder. People have different opinions on such things and these days I err on the side of caution. Duelist1954 did shooting videos of old break opens and he was adamant against using smokeless powder if the guns did not have the correct metallurgy for it.

Here is link for .32 hopkins and allen parts. https://www.ebay.com/b/Hopkins-Allen...944/bn_1942197

[racepres]

On using smokeless loads try to find out if the gun is made of steel, specifically steel that is intended for smokeless.

If you are not sure that it was intended for smokeless I would only load very mild loads or use black powder. People have different opinions on such things and these days I err on the side of caution. Duelist1954 did shooting videos of old break opens and he was adamant against using smokeless powder if the guns did not have the correct metallurgy for it.

Here is link for .32 hopkins and allen parts. https://www.ebay.com/b/Hopkins-Allen...944/bn_1942197

I was taught to look at the Cylinder stop notches.. just a ramp and wall usually indicate Not for Smokeless..ramp with a Notch, that catches cylinder stop bolt, most likely for Smokeless. Or...Maybe he was Full of it...IDK..

[barnetmill]

I was taught to look at the Cylinder stop notches.. just a ramp and wall usually indicate Not for Smokeless..ramp with a Notch, that catches cylinder stop bolt, most likely for Smokeless. Or...Maybe he was Full of it...IDK..

I know one is supposed find out, but I am not sure if it is always possible to know. Sometimes dates of manufacture from the serial number or other makings and knowing other little details. With the commonly available 3fg if the gun appears sound you are likely ok. i would not go 4fg and I think that maybe some of the original loadings were 4fg for the smaller cartridges. I would load the case full if I was using black powder.
I have one old gun that I have decided that I will not load it with anything other than a primer and plastic bullet because the metallurgy is so poor. Frame is already badly stretched.

[dtknowles]

Thanks for the link. What Duelist advocates is all anyone in their right mind would say publicly. Pressure is pressure it does not matter what powder produces it. That said, you can't overpressure a 32 S&W Long with black powder, just not enough case volume to do that. The .32 S&W long was introduced in 1896 so guns chambered for it are mostly from the Smokeless era.
Tim

[dtknowles]

Test fired today, 2.1gr. Green Dot and 98 gr. HBWC about 450 fps from the 327 brass and 550 from the 32 H&R brass. That is with the bullets seated just proud of flush with the case mouth. Homemade hinge pin seems fine. I ordered a replacement ejector cam. Cases dropped free with these loads, no extractor needed.

Tim

[dtknowles]

I test fired two rounds of newish factory ammo, the first one, RP LRN, 711 fps, second one WW LRN 391 fps. Head scratcher.

Tim

[barnetmill]

I test fired two rounds of newish factory ammo, the first one, RP LRN, 711 fps, second one WW LRN 391 fps. Head scratcher.

Tim

I know the factories often kept the velocity of 32 S&W short and long ammo low, but 391 fps sounds like way too low and 710 faster than I expected, especially from a short barrel. My .32 S&W Long while not new at all is a solid, small frame with a swing out cylinder, came with added adjustable target sight, and a trigger job. I got it after he lent it too his mother when the squirrel season was over. She put it under the couch and her little dog urinated on it and it was a mess. $65 at a gun show. Got most of the corrosion off with phosphoric acid solution and purchased a like new cylinder assembly from a gun smith parts and my gunsmith counter bore about 1/2 of the muzzle. Gun shoots well and with replacement grips looks good. Thinking of putting a micro optic on it. I shoot full power ammo in it at what the factory is suppose to load it at or a little more. That should be ~100 grains at about 700 fps.
A local fellow that shot an expensive semiauto Walther target pistol in that caliber had to replace his extractor. He purchased some reloads from another club member that had a little pep to them and that straight blow back gun damaged its extractor.

Here are some chronograph results of three factory brands. Buffalo bore would not be good for a top break .32

https://smith-wessonforum.com/thread...esting.396481/

The Results in feet per second are as follows for six rounds each:
Buffalo Bore: 845, 850, 855, 877, 855, 851-average 855.5 fps
Magtech: 712, 619,605,504,492,650-average 597 fps
PPU: 682,662,690,651,683,671-average-average 673 fps

The Buffalo Bore is just as advertised- their website advertises this round at 900/fps and listed a gun just like mine shooting 872/fps. Magtech lists theirs at 778/fps, but you can see from the results that this load is weak and inconsistent. I can't find the PPU advertised velocity but I think it's consistent with most 32 long factory loadings.
I will continue to carry the Buffalo Bore in my revolver and practice with PPU-it's usually the cheapest ammo on ammoseek.com and it seems just as accurate as the Buffalo Bore. I thought the Magtech might be a carry option but in my opinion it's pretty much garbage-some of the rounds even sounded and felt weak. The Buffalo Bore has a little more recoil but is still pretty mild.

[dtknowles]

Thanks for sharing that Barnetmill. I was intrigued by my prior results so I took a couple more rounds out of my collection and fired them. Two more RP and one more WW. One RP was a dud, I will pull it down and weigh the powder and bullet, the other RP clocked at 412 fps and the WW clocked at 375 fps. This makes the first RP round I tested, now the outlier. I pulled down the dud, 1.5 gr. of fine dull powder and a 98 gr bullet. I pulled down another what I thought was a dud round from my collection. It was Rem-UMC the bullet was identical to the RP bullet except it was 96 gr. but no powder just a stick about a quarter inch long and eighth inch square cross section. More puzzles.

Tim

[barnetmill]

Thanks for sharing that Barnetmill. I was intrigued by my prior results so I took a couple more rounds out of my collection and fired them. Two more RP and one more WW. One RP was a dud, I will pull it down and weigh the powder and bullet, the other RP clocked at 412 fps and the WW clocked at 375 fps. This makes the first RP round I tested, now the outlier. I pulled down the dud, 1.5 gr. of fine dull powder and a 98 gr bullet. I pulled down another what I thought was a dud round from my collection. It was Rem-UMC the bullet was identical to the RP bullet except it was 96 gr. but no powder just a stick about a quarter inch long and eighth inch square cross section. More puzzles.

Tim

Many years ago I read of a suicide where someone had three bullets in them. What they explained was the first round was a dud and this most determined person fired again the second shot carried both bullets out of barrel that while the penetrated, it was not enough to kill went the story and the third killed the person. Still could have easier been a murder with the same sequence of shooting.

[dtknowles]

I was sizing the fired brass to prepare for loading and upon further inspection, the REM-UMC case was ballon headed and the case had a hole drilled in the sidewall. I guess, I will restore this to its original condition, block of wood and all. Not a dud but an inert sample.
Tim

[barnetmill]

I was sizing the fired brass to prepare for loading and upon further inspection, the REM-UMC case was ballon headed and the case had a hole drilled in the sidewall. I guess, I will restore this to its original condition, block of wood and all. Not a dud but an inert sample.
Tim

Intact balloon head 32 cases could be used to put full charges of black powder for use in the older guns.

[dtknowles]

I was curious about the velocity reading I was getting so I tried some different things.
I increased my powder charge in the .327 brass until I was getting readings above 600 fps, was only slightly above handbook 32 S&W long max but in a much bigger case.
I fired some of my 32 S&W (short) handloads in a top bread S&W and in the H&A. They were almost 150 fps faster in the S&W than they were in the H&A.
I could speculate about the reasons why but what is clear that with the bored thru cylinder, the H&A is a gun unto itself, not like others.
Tim