Another bad rifle, Sabatti EVO US 308win

[nueces5]

I just got back from the range to test the rifle in the title. I mounted a Leupold Mark 4 scope, collimated with the barrel and the target at 50 meters. The shots didn't hit the target at 50 meters.
We tried changing ammunition, removing the muzzle brake, changing the riflescope and mount, and it's still the same.
The Sabatti is new, from a good friend, his first rifle.
We were going to test it, but none of the 20 shots we fired with Factory Ammo were successful.
I used 10 Federal Gold Medals and 10 Sellier and Bellot Matches.
Let's see what the importer says.

[M-Tecs]

Since that is a bolt action you can bore sight by viewing through the actual bore. If the scope doesn't have enough adjustment to get on paper that is a rifle or mount issue. If the bullets are blowing up before they reach the target that is a barrel issue but you will see the bullet disintegrate with your naked eye. Having swapped scopes that mostly eliminates it being a scope issue. Not hitting paper at 50 yards is a shooter process error most likely from the collimator. Even if the barrel has the wrong twist and the bullet tumbles you should still be able to get it on paper at 50 yards. The rule of thumb is start at 25 yards and that should put you on at 200 yards when the scope is the normal 1 1/2" above centerline of the bore.

What collimator are you using? Some work well and some not so much. Regardless, when you can actually sight through the bore collimators are not needed or particularly useful and likely the source of your problem.

Through the years I've tried a bunch and the only one I would recommend is the now discounted Leupold Zero Point Bore Sight.

Back when I was building/barreling a lot of M14's and M1A's I gave up on most collimators. These were for NRA Highpower service rifle competition. I did use a scope mounted in a Brookfield mount to test accuracy. Since I would take at least 5 or 6 rifles to the range at a time I found it most efficient to start at 100 yards. I would set the sight for 100 yards, but the rifle in a solid rest or locked in sandbags with the sights on the target. I would normally be alone so I would watch through a spotting scope and adjust based on bullet impact in the backstop if not on paper. It never took me more than 3 shots to get near the center of the target.

For rifles I can look through the bore I use sandbags and adjustable to center the bore to the target at 100 yards than adjust the scope to match. Normally POI is within 3" or 4" inches. I use targets with 1 inch grid patterns on them so that takes the guesswork out of how much to adjust when viewed through a spotting scope at 100 yards.

Once you get it on paper it's likely not going to be a rifle/barrel issue.

[725]

Did you fire it from 10 feet or so to see where the sights are putting the bullet? New rifle / new scope, it could go anywhere.

[recumbent]

Shoot it up close at first, 15 to 20 yards to get on paper. Then go to 50 yards.

[nueces5]

Since that is a bolt action you can bore sight by viewing through the actual bore. If the scope doesn't have enough adjustment to get on paper that is a rifle or mount issue. If the bullets are blowing up before they reach the target that is a barrel issue but you will see the bullet disintegrate with your naked eye. Having swapped scopes that mostly eliminates it being a scope issue. Not hitting paper at 50 yards is a shooter process error most likely from the collimator. Even if the barrel has the wrong twist and the bullet tumbles you should still be able to get it on paper at 50 yards. The rule of thumb is start at 25 yards and that should put you on at 200 yards when the scope is the normal 1 1/2" above centerline of the bore.

What collimator are you using? Some work well and some not so much. Regardless, when you can actually sight through the bore collimators are not needed or particularly usefull and likely the source of your problem.

Looking through the barrel, and seeing the same thing you see in the riflescope.
The system that never fails, hahaha.

[nueces5]

Did you fire it from 10 feet or so to see where the sights are putting the bullet? New rifle / new scope, it could go anywhere.

No, I didn't, I took the telescopic sight off my 6.5 cr with which I was shooting up to 700 meters, just in case, we changed the riflescope as I said in the first post, with the same result

[M-Tecs]

Looking through the barrel, and seeing the same thing you see in the riflescope.
The system that never fails, hahaha.

The failure was to not get it on paper so you could do an actual analysis to get some meaningful data. Where are the bullets going? Without that you really don't have much to stand on. Since you sighted through the bore and the scope adjusted to the target it's likely not a mount or receiver issue. Still comes down to where are the bullets going?

[relics6165]

Bore sighting is your friend. Line up the bore, look through the scope. Line up the scope, look through the bore.

[nueces5]

The failure was to not get it on paper so you could do an actual analysis to get some meaningful data. Where are the bullets going? Without that you really don't have much to stand on. Since you sighted through the bore and the scope adjusted to the target it's likely not a mount or receiver issue. Still comes down to where are the bullets going?

We were impressed that they were one meter above the target.

[nueces5]

Bore sighting is your friend. Line up the bore, look through the scope. Line up the scope, look through the bore.

post number 5

[M-Tecs]

We were impressed that they were one meter above the target.

Did the scopes have enough adjustments to zero? They do offer a 20 MOA base so it still could be a mount or ring issue. How solid what your rest when bore sighting and adjusting the scope? I'm having a hard coming up with a scenario that would allow a barrel to POI 72 MOA off if the bore sighting is done correctly. Was the bore sighting done 50 yards or further?

To eliminate the bullet rising too much above the line of sight through the bore I've found bore sighting works best when done at 100 yards or more, particularly the higher the scope is mounted.

[Hannibal]

We were impressed that they were one meter above the target.

If the optic is causing your point of impact to be 3 meters above the point of aim at 50 meters, I would suspect the optic/mount before blaming the rifle. Particularly if the group is satisfactory, just off the point of aim.
Have you tried another optic with a different mount?

[john.k]

I once checked a 222 that did this from new ...there was a 003 restriction in the last 1 inch of the barrel.......cut the barrel shorter,recrowned ,and it shot as required.

[405grain]

It sounds like something is seriously wrong here. The last time that I had a rifle that was behaving like this we discovered that someone had forgot to tighten the scope rings onto the scope mount. Being super high at only 50 meters makes me think that you should have a good look at the mount and rings to make sure that something isn't amiss.

When I do take a rifle to the range for it's first shots here's what I do. I have the rifle well supported both front and rear. I aim exactly for the center of the target. When I fire the rifle the bullet is going to hit "someplace". Once I see where the bullet has struck the target I again aim the rifle right at the bullseye. Then, while keeping the rifle as steady as possible, I adjust the scope dials to move the cross hairs over to where the bullet struck. Now, where the scope is pointing is where the bullet is going to strike. I can almost always get the rifle within 1" of centered doing this, and it only takes one shot. Some follow up shots at the bullseye and a few scope corrections will fine tune the point of impact.

[Harter66]

I have a rifle that the very first group I shot was 54" at 50 yd. However that was a 1927 Type 38.
I've a Savage affectionately dubbed "Donna" , as in Premodonna . Also because X MIL #1 was Donna and a pita . This particular rifle ,a 1965 110LH 30-06' was incredibly touchy about case capacity. Not OAL, not powder , primers , charge within its window , or really even bullet designs. But the actual internal capacity of the case itself. I found that even within a single box of 1x factory ammo cases could vary 2-5 gr of water . This resulted in individual groups of 4" on hold and at 8,10,&2:00 18" (.5 metre) apart . Yes from 8-2:00 they were 3 feet apart (1 metre).

While less likely I've experienced O/U torqued mounts and rings . I had rings that over torqued wouldn't hold the scope . I had mounts that when at proper torque weren't fully seated .

If it were me I'd forget to check the crown because.......well , because. I'd probably go straight to decoppering the barrel with at least 2-3 different solvents and 0000 wool .
Then I'd look at barrel constriction. (I had one that was fat in the middle too)
I'd double check the mounts and rings .
I would check via actual bore sighting with the naked eye that the optic and barrel were actually pointed in the same direction.

[farmerjim]

I had one (357Max Handi) that didn't hit paper at 100 yds, went to 25 yds, didn't hit paper, went to 15 yds, 4 in right 6 in up. Adjusted a bunch and got 1 in up and 1 in rt at 25 yds. adjusted and went to 100 yds, 1/2 in high and dead on center. Shoots the same with 357 max, 357 Mag, and 38 sp.

[725]

If it ends up being an aiming issue instead of a rifle/ammo issue, Burris sells a scope ring system that has non-concentric inserts which allow for some radical adjustments to the POA /POI. Might help out.

[Ruts]

Is this caginess a language issue? O.p hasn't actually said how he has boresighted or where the bullets are going, only that they are unsuccessful and it's his impression that they are a metre high. He hasn't nailed down a single factor

[steve urquell]

Is this caginess a language issue? O.p hasn't actually said how he has boresighted or where the bullets are going, only that they are unsuccessful and it's his impression that they are a metre high. He hasn't nailed down a single factor

I'm with you. I have zero advice about the rifle until it is properly sighted in. It was never sighted in so no one has any idea about problems it may or may not have. I don't feel it is appropriate to speculate on problems until the rifle puts bullets on paper.

[M-Tecs]

Is this caginess a language issue? O.p hasn't actually said how he has boresighted or where the bullets are going, only that they are unsuccessful and it's his impression that they are a metre high. He hasn't nailed down a single factor

The OP did state he or they looked through the bore in post #5. That method works very well when done properly. Having worked too many deer season sight-in range days I have also seen lots of people struggle with it. Most common are not have the rifles secured well enough to adjust the scope or bore sighting to close and wonder why their shots are way too high.