Longshot powder and the 40 S&W

[barnetmill]

I worked up Longshot from the starting charge, 10 rounds for each 0.1 gr increment. When I had ten rounds with 9.3 grains, they all cycled normally. Then I made 100 rounds at 9.2 grains, and 1 out of 14 would stick in the chamber.
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HS-6 is also good in .40 S&W, but not with 200 grain boolits. The reasons why I mention this is that, in my experience, Longshot is great with j-words but not so great with lead. HS-6 is great with lead, but I have not used it for j-words. The data in Lyman’s Cast Manual #4 I shared above has excellent performance for HS-6 under a 175 gr boolit, but I’m not confident that you can actually fit the full charge in that case. Longshot is awesome with j-words, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the same performance with a boolit.

Sammi is 35 K PSI. For sticky extraction you were likely way above that pressure. I am not sure at what pressure primers flatten, crater, and when the scrap of the firing pin against crater is important. There is always expansion of the end of the case area. But how to measures these is more art than sound engineering without a reference from pressure testing equipment. I was just watching Fairbane working with the 9x23mm that has a 55.5 k PSA MAP and how he was measuring pressure.
One thing for sure is that sticky extraction means you are likely way past the 35 k psi MAP. It also suggests to me that the lockup is giving/springing a little at peak pressure resulting in stuck cases. I have no idea where that happen in a tilt barrel locking design for pistols.
That is one reason that I want to use published loads that specify the precise conditions. This includes the primers, case brand, the bullet and its brand, seating spec, etc. If all is fine when I reach the top listed load that is supposed to be about 10-5% below the max Sammi pressure, I stop. if the velocity is more than what the load manual lists, I reduce the charge until that is reached. If the velocity is less I likely will look for another load to work with. I would not increase a load over the published maximun with a case like the 40 S&W that has such a small case capacity.

[justindad]

9.3gr of Longshot is Hodgdon’s max published load for the 155gr XTP - I did not exceed book loads. Different brass, sure.
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Load manuals aren’t always right. Look at the max charge that Lyman’s 49th-51st shows for Enforcer in .357 Sig and let me know if you ever find a case that can hold that much powder.
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Even if you think everything is perfect, always be humble in hand loading.

[barnetmill]

9.3gr of Longshot is Hodgdon’s max published load for the 155gr XTP - I did not exceed book loads. Different brass, sure.
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Load manuals aren’t always right. Look at the max charge that Lyman’s 49th-51st shows for Enforcer in .357 Sig and let me know if you ever find a case that can hold that much powder.
*
Even if you think everything is perfect, always be humble in hand loading.

I certainly am aware that loading manuals are not perfect.

Below are your components
CCI SPP, 1.135” OACL, virgin Starline brass

Below are Hodgdon's
Case: Hornady 1.125" Primer: Winchester SP, Small Pistol (I see that their OACL is shorter.)

The case substitution could be a big issue for a load with 9 plus grains of powder.

[justindad]

Good luck with your .40

[barnetmill]

Good luck with your .40

Thanks very much for your good wishes and the useful information. A good warning of things that can happen when following recommended loads.

[Barry54]

I’m about to embark on the mission of loading 40. I’ve been following this thread closely.

In my opinion, Longshot, Pro Reach, Blue Dot and such are “magnum shotgun powders”. From the name, I’ll assume True Blue is close on the burn rate charts. Someone proficient with quickload could run the numbers and predict muzzle pressure. But I doubt there would be a significant difference between them regarding muzzle blast.

I will add that my sole experience with loading Lehigh extreme bullets were slightly undersized. They fell into new Starline 38 special brass. Not something I was accustomed to shooting cast most of the time. Maybe the smaller diameter is intentional since they are monolithic and harder than most everything else?

[barnetmill]

I’m about to embark on the mission of loading 40. I’ve been following this thread closely.

In my opinion, Longshot, Pro Reach, Blue Dot and such are “magnum shotgun powders”. From the name, I’ll assume True Blue is close on the burn rate charts. Someone proficient with quickload could run the numbers and predict muzzle pressure. But I doubt there would be a significant difference between them regarding muzzle blast.

I will add that my sole experience with loading Lehigh extreme bullets were slightly undersized. They fell into new Starline 38 special brass. Not something I was accustomed to shooting cast most of the time. Maybe the smaller diameter is intentional since they are monolithic and harder than most everything else?

While I am not familiar with quickload, such programs are no better than the data that is fed into them.

I really wanted to use the 140 gr Lehighs, but for now I am putting them aside. I really wish that I had a 10 mm.

Most of those powders are progessive burning shotgun powders that double real well for 9mm, 357 sig, 40, 10 mm pistols. My experience is based on my older past experiences and for magnum revolver it is 296/H110
The easy button for a black bear gun is a glock in .45 ACP with plus P loads. I will keep my eyes open for a used one that can take optics.

[Sandspider500]

Arsenal 403-200 wfn pc

It's a very short fat boolit. And it's.6-.602 long after powder coating.

The rcbs 200gr swc is around .712-.717 long.


This is 10mm data for the rcbs boolit. If seated in a 40 s&w case to an OAL of 1.25 it would be .315 deep in a .85 long case.

If the arsenal 403-200 wfn pc were seated in a 40 s&w case at 1.135, it would be .315 deep in a .85 long case.



With this boolit high velocity is possible, but you'll run into slide speed problems if you go too high.

[barnetmill]

Arsenal 403-200 wfn pc

It's a very short fat boolit. And it's.6-.602 long after powder coating.

The rcbs 200gr swc is around .712-.717 long.


This is 10mm data for the rcbs boolit. If seated in a 40 s&w case to an OAL of 1.25 it would be .315 deep in a .85 long case.

If the arsenal 403-200 wfn pc were seated in a 40 s&w case at 1.135, it would be .315 deep in a .85 long case.



With this boolit high velocity is possible, but you'll run into slide speed problems if you go too high.

Your load up there of 1.25 inches overall compares to standard lengths of 1.125 (1.135 is max) showing difference of an 1/8 inch. The total length is 1 1/4 inch long and would that even fit in a glock magazine? I think it might work in 1911 magazine. If it fitted I wonder if it would feed reliably due to the subcaliber bullet nose allowing the edge to case to caught when feeding. Of course one does need to try it. I could seat some other bullet to a total length of 1 1/4 inches and see if it will load into a glock oem mag. The pressure units are in CUP and converting them to psi is not easy.

note the bullet nose shape.
Screenshot 2025-08-30 at 22-10-53 Longshot powder and the 40 S&W - Reply to Topic.png

That is data showing a 200 grain bullet going up to 1200 fps. Underwood data load to maximum and for a 200 grain hard lead coated bullet shows 1000 fps and is what I can achieve with the max loads that I have from Hodgdon.
Bullet Construction: Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast
Bullet Material:Lead
Bullet Model:Flat Nose
Bullet Weight(gr):200
Cartridge:.40 S&W
Case Type:Nickel Plated Brass
Gun Type:Handgun
Muzzle Energy (ft. lbs):444
Muzzle Velocity (fps):1000
Sectional Density:0.18

Do know anyone that has fired these loads in an OEM glock. Also I did not see the barrel length.

[barnetmill]

Your load up there of 1.25 inches overall compares to standard lengths of 1.125 (1.135 is max) showing difference of an 1/8 inch. The total length is 1 1/4 inch long and would that even fit in a glock magazine? I think it might work in 1911 magazine. If it fitted I wonder if it would feed reliably due to the subcaliber bullet nose allowing the edge to case to caught when feeding. Of course one does need to try it. I could seat some other bullet to a total length of 1 1/4 inches and see if it will load into a glock oem mag. The pressure units are in CUP and converting them to psi is not easy.

note the bullet nose shape.
Screenshot 2025-08-30 at 22-10-53 Longshot powder and the 40 S&W - Reply to Topic.png

That is data showing a 200 grain bullet going up to 1200 fps. Underwood data load to maximum and for a 200 grain hard lead coated bullet shows 1000 fps and is what I can achieve with the max loads that I have from Hodgdon.
Bullet Construction: Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast
Bullet Material:Lead
Bullet Model:Flat Nose
Bullet Weight(gr):200
Cartridge:.40 S&W
Case Type:Nickel Plated Brass
Gun Type:Handgun
Muzzle Energy (ft. lbs):444
Muzzle Velocity (fps):1000
Sectional Density:0.18

Do know anyone that has fired these loads in an OEM glock. Also I did not see the barrel length.

I see that the other bullet would work in the mag

If the arsenal 403-200 wfn pc were seated in a 40 s&w case at 1.135, it would be .315 deep in a .85 long case.

I see some old threads on these bullets https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-or-200gr-quot

[Sandspider500]

[barnetmill]

Impressive.

I would rather buy small a quantity of bullets first and then maybe buy the mold.


Is there a source of sized bullets?

I see a load of 6.3 gr UP Please is UP a powder or what was the powder that was used.

[barnetmill]

I just found these; but they are likely too long at 0.686 inch

https://acmebullet.com/product-categ...ts/40cal_10mm/
Screenshot 2025-08-31 at 08-43-55 40 CAL-10mm Caliber Bullets Hi-Tek Coated Pistol Ammunition.png

[Sandspider500]

I don't know of any place where you could buy these to sample.

The powder used was sw ultimate pistol, and it gives the same velocity as longshot grain for grain, but it does that at a higher pressure. Longshot will give lower pressure. Seating then to 1.135 might require your barrel to have the throat extended.

My plinking load with this boolit is seated to 1.1 oal using 5.5gr of ultimate pistol.

Not as consistent, but works just fine. The sw load manual uses a saeco 200gr boolit, that one is .700 long at 1.125 with 5.5gr. So the 403-200, even at 1.1 has less in the case than that one.



Arsenal has another 40 boolit that's worth a look too. I don't have it, but I might order it soon.

This one could be loaded to at an oal to maximize case capacity as well.

Looks like the closest you're gonna get is blue bullets sells a 200gr rnfp that's .65 long.

[FergusonTO35]

I picked up a like new used Glock model 22 a couple years ago and want to use it on my place for protection against all that slithers or walks on two and four legs. Florida is the local and my various 9mms are ok for up to 2-legged critters, but sort of lacking for a typical 150-300 black bear.
Enter the 40 cal. Why did I chose it it. The price was right and someone gave me 30 lbs of brass for it and glocks are rugged reliable pistols. I have a 5 5/8" barrel on it also and extra strong recoil springs.

Questions: I am looking at bullets in 135 to 140 grain range. Specifically the 140 grain lehigh extreme penetrator. And I also have 135 grain nosler hollow points. I plan to use Hodgdon long shot Powder.
These charges are from the hodgdon website for reloading. https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

Bullet: 135 GR. NOS JHP max load is 11.5gr 1,434fps 31,900 PSI

While go up just five grains more in bullet wt to an all copper Bullet: 140 GR. BAR TAC-XP and powder charge is drastically reduced
Bullet: 140 GR. BAR TAC-XP max load is 7.0 1,185 31,400 PSI
My guess is the decreased powder volume and the harder all copper bullet is the reason that powder charges are decreased with the all copper bullets.
I am going to substitute the 140 gr Lehigh extreme penetrators for 140 gr BAR TAC-XP as a general purpose field load for critters and 2-legged life forms and try to reach 1200 fps in the plus 5 inch barrel that is on the gun.
Does anyone see any serious flaws in trying to reach that objective or other observations?

Lehigh 140 grain extreme penetrators.
Attachment 340138

Barnes Tac-xp 140 grain
Attachment 340139

I have 180 grain hollow points from speer gold dot, hornady, etc but I do not think that they will penetrate as deeply as the extreme penetrators in a black bear. I have considered loading up 180 FMJ, and I am still considering that. I have an old lyman mold for a 200 grain bullet that may be 40 cal that could also be an option.

Just thought I would let you know, the Lee 401-175-TC works in my factory stock Glock 23 gen. 4 like it was made for it. I use 3.8 grains of HP-38 and 1.098 OAL for 800 fps and very good accuracy. I see no reason why it wouldn't work with a stronger charge, but I'm so happy with this load I'm sticking with it. I can do really fast follow up shots with it too, which I would not be able to do with a stronger load.

[barnetmill]

Just thought I would let you know, the Lee 401-175-TC works in my factory stock Glock 23 gen. 4 like it was made for it. I use 3.8 grains of HP-38 and 1.098 OAL for 800 fps and very good accuracy. I see no reason why it wouldn't work with a stronger charge, but I'm so happy with this load I'm sticking with it. I can do really fast follow up shots with it too, which I would not be able to do with a stronger load.

Thanks for the information The bullet is short enough to provide some more room for the powder. I believe that bullets with grease grooves can be powder coated. I can likely get it to 1200 fps safely.

Produces a .401 diameter 175 grain truncated cone nose bullet

Handles Included

Bullet Overall Length = .590 inches.

Distance from nose of the bullet to the first lube groove = .245 inches

.

Screenshot 2025-09-02 at 14-34-52 Lee Precision Inc. - 40 S&W _ 10mm Auto Molds.png

[justindad]

<snip>

The sw load manual uses a saeco 200gr boolit, that one is .700 long at 1.125 with 5.5gr. So the 403-200, even at 1.1 has less in the case than that one.

<snip>

Which load manual uses the Saeco boolit? I’d like to buy that one.

[billmc2]

I believe that bullets with grease grooves can be powder coated. I can likely get it to 1200 fps safely.

Yes you can powder coat bullets with grease grooves. All I use is powder coat.

[billmc2]

Which load manual uses the Saeco boolit? I’d like to buy that one.

I believe that Redding is the producer of the Saeco molds.

[barnetmill]

Yes you can powder coat bullets with grease grooves. All I use is powder coat.

Thanks

I do not like to use grease in self defense pistol loads. But I guess someone could coat and then also lube the bullets.