not sure what to try when my last few bags of 12s3 and 12s4 wads are gone the claybuster might work well for trap and skeet loads but they just dont compare for slugs and buckshot. just thinking out loud here but I wonder if a hard card under the lead load in clay buster might help. I dont know. but the problem I see with clay buster is the plastic is not as stiff and much thinner.