Python .357 hi velocity Lee 358-158 SWC gas check - 1/3 barrel leading

[RadarsRUs]

Hello Gang, curious if you guys think the Lube CAPACITY in the Lee 158gr SWC-GC Carries Enough lube for 1,400 fps H-110 loads in 6” revolver.(15.0gr charge)

They are checked with Hornady guilding metal checks. I’m just using Wheel-W Lead too which may the prob right there.

Bullets checked / sized at .358 which is good for that bore. If I drive a plain soft sized .358 bullet through it is very shiny in where Lands & Grooves have Sized it down so it Is Filling bore.

I’m just getting some Light Leading in the front 1/3 of the barrel. These loads are pretty Spicy at that speed, but they are quite accurate.

I imagine that barrel would be Heavy Layered in Lead if not using a Check…

[Drydock]

Does it fill the chamber throats at the front of the cylinder. That is the dimension most important in a revolver. The Lee lube capacity is fine for any handgun.

When you say front, do you mean the breech end of the barrel or the muzzle end. If you are getting leading at the muzzle end, that means your alloy is too soft and you are stripping the rifling. If the breech end, I suspect your alloy is too hard for obduration and you are getting blow by in the cylinder throat, depositing lead in the barrel. A larger bullet that tightly fits the chamber throats will also fix this.

My guess is the muzzle, and that your wheelweight alloy is too soft.

[downzero]

Get some of Smoke's powdercoat and you'll never see leading again. Blast them as fast as you want.

[Dusty Bannister]

What bullet lube are you using? Some just are not up to the task. Bullet fit in the throat has already been questioned. A loose fit in the throat will blow the lube out of the grooves before it can enter the barrel. Are you seeing an antimony wash? Leading will usually deposit in the grooves in a short time while the wash will appear, but not harm accuracy with following shots.

With adequate bullet lube (quality and quantity) you may find a soot on the muzzle and sometimes a silver deposit matching the grooves in the barrel. This is called a lube star. What are you seeing at the muzzle? Is the deposit easily removed with bore cleaner and a brush, or does it require significant scrubbing?

[racepres]

I shoot that very Boolit, with those gas checks. Also sized to .358, lubed with LSS 50/50.
I use them in a DW 6" 357! Among others, including the eldest boys 357 Max Contender! Not especially Hard at all..striving for 12BHN. I have Zero Problems. Actually the Lee 358 158 Flat round, without Gas Check, works equally well at ~ 12BHN, leads at 15 BHN, so may be a bit Small for some Applications!

[chutestrate]

Not using reloads yet. Wanted to keep to factory loads for warranty issues. If there were problems I didn't want that getting in the way.

[gwpercle]

What Bullet Lube ?

If you are getting the lead in the first 1/3 of the barrel it sounds like you are using a Hard Lube and Hard Lubes take a while to get out the lube grooves and onto the barrel .

I have always used a soft lube for magnum handgun boolits in my 357 Magnum .
I use Lithium-Beeswax (Lithi-Bee) soft lube with the same bullet and a gas check ...
I get no lead in the barrel . Wheel-weight metal should be plenty hard with that bullet ... I'm suspecting it's your lube !
Gary

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I also use the Lee 358-158gr SWC with GC for 357 Mag hot loads with good results.
The Lube grooves hold adequate lube if you are using a known good quality lube.
.
Read Dusty Bannister's post thoroughly, He said everything you should know to troubleshoot your problem.
Honestly, I suspect you have one or more throats that are oversized and your lube is getting blasted out the cylinder gap.

[Gobeyond]

Lee lube grooves seem sort of shallow in the 45-70 also. Except for the minies. I know they don’t have enough lube for a longer barrel. I never had a leading problem in 357 not that hot though. All the above.

[RadarsRUs]

Hello All, Thanks for all the great assistance and troubleshooting advice here!

The size of bullet with the gas chk is a Light push from chamber end out front of the cylinder bores. There is No extra space but it is Not a Forced passage with effort either. When a sized bullet is “Stood On Nose” into the Forcing Cone there is No Way that will enter bore without some Serious force behind. I think if I went Up by 1 Thou. it might get Jammed or Hard Push trying to pass through the front of the Cylinder chambers.
I checked with calipers to thou. and all the cylinder bores Are uniform. I don’t have a pin-gage set.

The leading shows as little streaks of silver along edge of Lands and some smearing on top of lands in the Muzzle 1/3 of barrel in the bore scope (yeah, I’m a geek, I have one). The removal was just a bit of bronze bore-brush scrubbing with Hopes 9 and a 10 min soak. There was Not an easy to see Lube-star on muzzle and that was why I asked about the lube grooves Capacity at first.

Not at all like Mining big hunks out of it. But I like to get all my reloading Technically Correct and keep really high Qualty in my ammo.

The Lube (as the LAST pan lubing session I will do… Man, What a PITA!) was Carnuba Blue and I’m Sure it is on Me to maybe Water Drop harden them or something. That 15.0 gr. of H-110 was Launching those little pills at 1,360 - 1,400 which is moving pretty fast.

The Cylinder Gap in this new Python is barely visible and Zero depositing of anything except a little Smoke gets applied to the underside of the Top Strap right at that interface of cylinder and forcing cone. I don’t think anything is getting out that way.

Thankfully New (used) Lyman 450 arrives this week so No more monkeying around with that Pan Lube fiddly Mess and driving them up through a Lee .358 sizer die with the lube all over the place. Next Batch experiment will be with Water Dropped / GC’ed and see what happens.

I am a green horn at this Casting bullet gig but a very experienced reloader of many chamberings rifle and handgun. Never enough shooting at the range but this “Making the Donuts” hobby is almost as much satisfaction ��. THANKS again gang and Standing By…

[Dusty Bannister]

The common suggestion when working with a problem load is to make ONE change at a time. If you are showing a poor lube condition, you could consider applying some of the bullet lube on a patch and scrub the bore with that to pre-condition the barrel. Then shoot some of the bullets you have already prepared. You are not trying to slop on the lube, but rub well to make the metal shine. Too many tend to go to a harder bullet thinking that is a cure all. It is not, the bullet needs to be soft enough to seal the gas behind the bullet.

Keep in mind that calipers are not generally as accurate as a micrometer. And Take your measurement at several places around the bullet at the base band since that is where the pressure is applied. If the base is rounded at all, even with a gas check, you might have a problem. Depending upon how you use the Lee push through die to seat and crimp the gas check, that might be another source of leakage. You are getting there, it just takes time to get the details worked out.

[Grayone]

Get some of Smoke's powdercoat and you'll never see leading again. Blast them as fast as you want.

THIS !!! Still lube some but the hi velocity stuff gets powder coat.

[gwpercle]

The Carnuba Blue is a soft lube ...

You wouldn't believe how many boolits I pick up in the range berm still full of hard lubes .
If your leading is in the muzzle 1/3 of the barrel ... the lube isn't getting there ... running out , maybe not enough
in the lube grooves .
Everything sounds pretty good ...

You might try adding a coat of Lee Liquid Alox to your Carnuba Blue lubed boolits (simply tumble lube them over the existing blue lube) to see if that does the trick !
If the alox coating does the trick ... your blue lube may need replacing !
The 357 Magnum - Cast Boolit Loads is a hard nut to crack but once you find a lube that works ... everything is hunky-dorey !
My lube salvation was finding Lithium Grease -Beeswax ,
Lithi-Bee Lube ... works like a Voo-Doo magic spell !

Keep On Keepin On ... you will find the answer !
Gary

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

snip>>>

The size of bullet with the gas chk is a Light push from chamber end out front of the cylinder bores. There is No extra space but it is Not a Forced passage with effort either. When a sized bullet is “Stood On Nose” into the Forcing Cone there is No Way that will enter bore without some Serious force behind. I think if I went Up by 1 Thou. it might get Jammed or Hard Push trying to pass through the front of the Cylinder chambers.
I checked with calipers to thou. and all the cylinder bores Are uniform. I don’t have a pin-gage set.

Maybe your cylinder is OK? but I would recommend measuring the throats the correct way. You don't need a pin/gage set, although they are nice. You need to push a soft lead round ball through each chamber by tapping them with a brass punch and hammer. Oil the chamber well, you want a tight fit to get a true reading of the throat. Measure each slug with a 0-1" Micrometer that has a slip-clutch. When measuring soft lead, you need a tool that doesn't rely on thumb pressure like a Caliper, it's too easy to get incorrect readings with varied thumb pressure. You've bought a Python and mention a bore scope, so I know you can afford a $20 Mic, which if you keep casting, you'll be glad you have that tool.

[Drydock]

Size to .359 and harden your alloy. Quenching the bullets might serve you well here.

[jonp]

I've run that boolit up in that velocity in a Blackhawk with good results. Other comments before me have pretty much said it all

[RadarsRUs]

I did some measuring today and found following.
- Cylinder bores at front are .3592 or 3. They Are all same size. I believe that they are True Round too.
- Barrel interior is .3555” in Grooves and Lands are at about .348”. (I was surprised again how the largest bore diameter is actually Not even .356”. Had seen that in past but forgot.)

In light of these numbers I think Drydock may be on to something with idea to Size to .359” and GWPercle’s suggestion of Adding a Little Tumble in Alox is another good idea.

Add the Water Dropping experiment and I have several new combinations to try to find the Ultimate Happy cast 158g Gas Check hi-velocity's load for This Revolver… Not necessarily any Other one. Don’t they All have their OWN “Personalities”… Ha-Ha!

[Dusty Bannister]

That seems to be a fairly large throat for a factory gun of current production. Try loading a dummy round and make sure it will drop in with muzzle down, and drop out with muzzle up. If your as cast diameter is too small to fill the throat, then powder coating will increase the bullet diameter and solve that issue. Sounds like you are getting things figured out.

[Larry Gibson]

The carnauba Blue lube you have just isn't up to the task. When you get the 450 Lubrasizer ditch the carnauba lube you've been using. Get some NRA 50/50 or 2500+ from LsStuff.com [advertised at bottom of forum]. Given the 'gentle push" through the cylinders the .358 sizing is fine with the Colts bore/groove dimensions.

Also, you shouldn't need to harden COWW alloy as when AC'd for 10+ days it will be hard enough, especially with a GC'd bullet. Instead of hardening the bullets you might ass 2% tin which will give a much better alloy and AC'd bullets with BHNs in the 12 - 15 range.

[Drydock]

Colt has always had tight 38 barrels. Sounds about right. I've got a 1922 Army Special with those same measurements.