Great substitute for 6.0 grs Unique and 158 gr SWC 357 Mag

[Kosh75287]

I've never used HS-6, but 1200 f/s from a 4.625" barrel is some serious steppin'. Do you know if it produces much muzzle flash? Just curious. I shot about 200 rounds of .357 loaded by a friend with HS-6 (do not remember the exact load, but had 158 gr. LSWCs and RNFPs). Whatever the charge weight, it was accurate (even well beyond 50 yards), controllable, and the cases always fell freely from every revolver in which we fired it.

The 6.0/BE-86/158 gr. LSWC load from the OP is directly analogous to the 6.0/Unique/158 gr. load. BE-86 is basically a better-metering, cleaner-burning, flash suppressed version of Unique, which seems to be similar in all respects, EXCEPT DENSITY. It is ~25% more dense than Unique, so former Unique users who load by volume should keep this in mind.

Someone mentioned 6.0/Unique/158 gr. in .38 Special cases. I tried this with some opened Unique, bought from a trusted source, and the load stuck cases in all 3 revolvers in which I tried it. I'm STILL pulling them apart (on my 3rd inertial bullet puller) and cussing myself for not working up. It COULD be that the propellant in the 8# canister factory-labeled "Unique" has something other than or mixed in with Unique. I am putting together loads from said canister, using published data for Unique, and will compare it with loads using the same data and containing "honest to God" Unique that I bought new, and unopened to see if what I bought is appreciably faster-burning than "h-t-G" Unique. Even if the burn rate IS significantly faster than for Unique, I can put the propellant to use. I paid too much for it to just pour it all on the flower beds, but what a p.i.t.a.!!!

I don't know how much BE-86 the OP has/had, but I hope it is a lot. Since it and Unique are made for Vista Outdoors, which announced a cessation of production for Alliant powders (could not get enough nitrocellulose or at the right price), he may soon find that BE-86 is also no-obtanium. I very recently made what I consider to be a WONDERFUL deal for eight 1 lb. cans of BE-86 from a supplier whose name escapes me. At current rates of ammo consumption and, given that I'm now 62, I may have enough Unique/BE-86 to last me well into my decrepitude.
I know that I should write-off the opened Unique that I bought, but I'm too much of a tight-wad to just do that without at least TRYING to salvage it. Perhaps I should know better, by now...

VIHTAVUORI POWDER recommendations for .357 Magnum: Nothing faster-burning than N330. N350 or 3N37 may be the best compromise between performance an economy. 3N38 is another contender. For max performance in longer barrels, N110 would be the one I'D want to try. A friend who uses it in other magnum revolver rounds says that it does everything that H110/W296 will do, except require the use of magnum pistol primers, and limit charge reductions to 3% under max.

[anothernewb]

I've replaced all my unique loadings with BE86. they have proven to be within .2 either side of my old loads.

[Kosh75287]

I've replaced all my unique loadings with BE86. They have proven to be within 0.2 gr. either side of my old loads.

I couldn't agree more. Does it seem to you that more often than not, it takes 0.1-0.2 gr. more BE-86 than Unique, instead of less? It seems to me that BE-86 has a burn rate that is just SLIGHTLY slower than Unque, so slightly more of it is needed to get similar performance. The burn-rate of BE-86 seems TO ME like it is between that of Unique and Herco (which are already very close). I wonder if the flash suppressant agents might slow the burn rate just slightly. The grain size in BE-86 seems smaller than in Unique, which (all other factors being equal) should make it burn faster (consider a fire in the fireplace, on which one tosses twigs, vs. a thick log).
For .32 ACP or .380 ACP, I have not been able to discern a significant velocity difference between Unique and BE-86, but the charge weights usually run under 4.0 gr. In these calibers have never had to use extra BE-86 to equal results that I obtained previously with Unique.
In charge weights from 4.0 to 8.0 gr., I rarely have to bump the charge by 0.1 gr (more common) or 0.2 gr. (very rare). From 8.0 to 10.0 gr., I end up bumping the charge up by 0.2 gr. about AS often as 0.1 gr., but again, both are fairly uncommon. I would EXPECT that more variation might be detected in charge weights above 10.0 gr., but nothing that I shoot requires charges that large. Maybe when I try it in 8x57mm...

[anothernewb]

I couldn't agree more. Does it seem to you that more often than not, it takes 0.1-0.2 gr. more BE-86 than Unique, instead of less? It seems to me that BE-86 has a burn rate that is just SLIGHTLY slower than Unque....

yep. BE seems to need a hair more, vs less on average. i've heard it said treat it like a lot of fast unique, but my experience has been the other way. Though I have found matching the load exactly has yet to produce a negative result. Seems to do OK in the larger cartrige cases too. though it fills the case less than unique does. it seems really happy in 357 and 44. 10mm as well. buddy loads it in 454 casull for some of his cast loads.

[poppy42]

I've never used HS-6, but 1200 f/s from a 4.625" barrel is some serious steppin'. Do you know if it produces much muzzle flash? Just curious. I shot about 200 rounds of .357 loaded by a friend with HS-6 (do not remember the exact load, but had 158 gr. LSWCs and RNFPs). Whatever the charge weight, it was accurate (even well beyond 50 yards), controllable, and the cases always fell freely from every revolver in which we fired it.

The 6.0/BE-86/158 gr. LSWC load from the OP is directly analogous to the 6.0/Unique/158 gr. load. BE-86 is basically a better-metering, cleaner-burning, flash suppressed version of Unique, which seems to be similar in all respects, EXCEPT DENSITY. It is ~25% more dense than Unique, so former Unique users who load by volume should keep this in mind.

Someone mentioned 6.0/Unique/158 gr. in .38 Special cases. I tried this with some opened Unique, bought from a trusted source, and the load stuck cases in all 3 revolvers in which I tried it. I'm STILL pulling them apart (on my 3rd inertial bullet puller) and cussing myself for not working up. It COULD be that the propellant in the 8# canister factory-labeled "Unique" has something other than or mixed in with Unique. I am putting together loads from said canister, using published data for Unique, and will compare it with loads using the same data and containing "honest to God" Unique that I bought new, and unopened to see if what I bought is appreciably faster-burning than "h-t-G" Unique. Even if the burn rate IS significantly faster than for Unique, I can put the propellant to use. I paid too much for it to just pour it all on the flower beds, but what a p.i.t.a.!!!

I don't know how much BE-86 the OP has/had, but I hope it is a lot. Since it and Unique are made for Vista Outdoors, which announced a cessation of production for Alliant powders (could not get enough nitrocellulose or at the right price), he may soon find that BE-86 is also no-obtanium. I very recently made what I consider to be a WONDERFUL deal for eight 1 lb. cans of BE-86 from a supplier whose name escapes me. At current rates of ammo consumption and, given that I'm now 62, I may have enough Unique/BE-86 to last me well into my decrepitude.
I know that I should write-off the opened Unique that I bought, but I'm too much of a tight-wad to just do that without at least TRYING to salvage it. Perhaps I should know better, by now...

VIHTAVUORI POWDER recommendations for .357 Magnum: Nothing faster-burning than N330. N350 or 3N37 may be the best compromise between performance an economy. 3N38 is another contender. For max performance in longer barrels, N110 would be the one I'D want to try. A friend who uses it in other magnum revolver rounds says that it does everything that H110/W296 will do, except require the use of magnum pistol primers, and limit charge reductions to 3% under max.

6grns of Unique in 38 special is going to be a lot hotter than 6 grns of unique in 357 mag cases! I’m no expert and I’ve read a few of your post’s and the I think you have been spot on. However I do not recommend 6 grains of unique in 38 special cases.

[jms1911]

I remember reading long ago that Elmer Keith liked 5 grains of Unique with his 358429 bullet in the 38 Special and 5.5 grains for a Max. load so you are right up there depending on bullet design. I know his is a little heavier. I noticed in the Nosler manual burn rate chart BE-86 is#59 and Unique is #132. They are showing it right there with Bullseye. With the 357 and HS-6 I started with 8.2 and went up to 9 in .2 increments and found it really turned on at 8.8 in my revolvers. I used a 6 in. Colt, 4 in. S&W 66, and 2 1/2 in 2020 Python. I'm going to give those Vihtavouri powder a try. I like the single base concept. Not familier with 3N38 but will look in to it.

[Hi-Speed]

Kosh, I didn’t notice flash since I always shoot outdoors…sunny mostly also; except recently with our fall weather changes.

N340 also worked well but doesn’t get 1200 fps in my 4 5/8 inch. N350 is much better with 158 gr cast SWC. Im getting 1200 fps + with N350 and 158 gr cast SWC with min load recommended by VV (great customer and technical assistance). ES and SD comparable with my 9.0 grs HS-6 158 gr cast load. HS-6 doesn’t get me good performance in high end 38 Spl +P loads even with magnum primers, but passable ES/SDs with Winchester 1 1/2 primers…for high end 38 Spl +P loads I use instead 6.0 grs Power Pistol, CCI-500 primers and Speer 158 gr LSWC, 1.440” oal per Speer reloading data…1,000 fps easily

[Hi-Speed]

Your results are right in line with what I have been getting with HS-6. I've been using a six inch Colt Trooper H&G 51 and Win. primers. I worked up to 9 grains with the same velocity. Was looking for a mid-range load around 1100 -1200 fps and HS-6 seems to fill the need. Been thinking of using some of the N300 series of powder from Vihtavuori. Anybody have any imput?

Regarding VV N300 series, I’ve loaded 8.0 grs N350 behind a generic cast 158 gr SWC…from my Ruger 4 5/8 Blackhawk (10 shot string): Avg 1,224 fps with ES 47 SD 12. It’s a real good load…faster than Federal 158 gr JSP 357 Mag from same Ruger and very accurate. It’s now my standard 158 gr weight 357 Magnum load.

[racepres]

I've replaced all my unique loadings with BE86. they have proven to be within .2 either side of my old loads.

Mirrors My Experience...In All of my Cast Loadings... even various other Calibers.. 221 FireBall comes to mind

[jms1911]

Regarding VV N300 series, I’ve loaded 8.0 grs N350 behind a generic cast 158 gr SWC…from my Ruger 4 5/8 Blackhawk (10 shot string): Avg 1,224 fps with ES 47 SD 12. It’s a real good load…faster than Federal 158 gr JSP 357 Mag from same Ruger and very accurate. It’s now my standard 158 gr weight 357 Magnum load.

Sounds like a good load. Will go to town today and see if they have any. If I'm not mistaken I think that is a single base powder. I always test with 10 shot strings in handgun loads.

[justindad]

Kosh, I didn’t notice flash since I always shoot outdoors…sunny mostly also; except recently with our fall weather changes.

N340 also worked well but doesn’t get 1200 fps in my 4 5/8 inch. N350 is much better with 158 gr cast SWC. Im getting 1200 fps + with N350 and 158 gr cast SWC with min load recommended by VV (great customer and technical assistance). ES and SD comparable with my 9.0 grs HS-6 158 gr cast load. HS-6 doesn’t get me good performance in high end 38 Spl +P loads even with magnum primers, but passable ES/SDs with Winchester 1 1/2 primers…for high end 38 Spl +P loads I use instead 6.0 grs Power Pistol, CCI-500 primers and Speer 158 gr LSWC, 1.440” oal per Speer reloading data…1,000 fps easily

The SD & ES numbers I got with HS-6 were extremely dependent on the primer. CCI 550 primers gave such wide speed variations that I cannot run the charge near the book max loading for a 158 grain boolit in .357. However, Federal SPP Magnum Match primers gave me single digit SD numbers with HS-6.
*
Try match grade magnum primers with HS-6.

[1lnbrdg]

Have you looked on the NOE website? They list the 444 cartridge, saw it the other day.

[maddog13]

Can't speak for BE-86 but recently have been using HS-6.....and it is working real good for my purposes. I use 8 grs HS-6 in my 357 mag Rossi levergun with 158 gr RNFP cast coated and 9.5 grs in my 30-30 Contender carbine with 165 gr RNFP(Missouri Bullet coated).....both loads are very accurate

[Four-Sixty]

Another fan of HS-6. I like 6.5 grains under a 158 grain tumble lube bullet in a 38 special case. I use 7.2 grains under the same bullet in 357 mag cases. Both loads let me hit objects like clods of dirt, sticks or paper at the 50 yard berm using open sights on my Rossi 92.