"Real" Keith Bullets

[LAH]

You are correct, the 45 is a MP copy of the RCBS SAA. It is a heavy bullet designed by Dave Scovill if memory serves for the Colt SAA. I sent him several of these sized .454" years ago for an article in Handloader Magazine. And while there are other bullets that may claim best overall bullet for the 45 Colt, I believe this one is good as any. And at risk of speaking for Mr. Keith, I believe he would approve.

[Gunslinger1911]

Yes LAH, quite a thumper ! Doesn't feed too well in my 45 Colt lever guns, but nice boolet in Smith 25 and a real hammer in Taurus 454.

[LAH]

This is the 41 Keith at 230 grains. Walt Melander cut the mould for my Master Caster before he passed. The 41 guys loved this bullet.

[LAH]

This is a heavy weight 44 Keith looking bullet at 305 grains. I sold several of these in days past. It is a thumper.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Ironically, I was in this thread, fairly early on, but then life got in the way, and I’ve been away for about 10 years. When the interruption happened for me, it was just before Mr. Prochka joined, and original NEI molds were sampled and the “Elmer Keith Signature” molds were made by NOE. Wish I wasn’t distracted, as I’d have certainly jumped on that group buy!!!

My interest in this thread upon my return was peaked by looking at the “True Keith” boolits, and comparing it to my 8-year prior group buy. I think I didn’t do too bad, not knowing what Mr. Protchka knew…

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[LAH]

I think I didn’t do too bad, not knowing what Mr. Protchka knew…

I think you did just fine.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks! A lot of us from around the 2000s are not here anymore, but I recognized your handle and FN in MT’s screen name. Pretty sure both of you bought that heavy 44 Keith. Good to “see” you still around!

[Eddie Southgate]

This is the 41 Keith at 230 grains. Walt Melander cut the mould for my Master Caster before he passed. The 41 guys loved this bullet.

You mean Keith style bullet . The .41 was designed by Lyman with no input from Elmer.

[LAH]

Yes Eddie, Keith style. Sorry I should have stated such.

[JAC43]

Do you fellas know where I might be able to find one of these fine molds for a 41? NOE has been out of stock for a while. I've placed a couple WTB ads for the and no ones taken me up on it. I'd be interested in any of the older 2 cavity Prochko molds or NEI version like Lynn has posted.

[376Steyr]

Do you fellas know where I might be able to find one of these fine molds for a 41? NOE has been out of stock for a while. I've placed a couple WTB ads for the and no ones taken me up on it. I'd be interested in any of the older 2 cavity Prochko molds or NEI version like Lynn has posted.

MP Molds currently shows a clone of the H&G 258 in stock, if that would help.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...ld-hg258clone/

[AlaskaMike]

This is a heavy weight 44 Keith looking bullet at 305 grains. I sold several of these in days past. It is a thumper.

Is that the one from H&G?

I have a 4 cavity mold from Ballisticast that is the spitting image of that one.

[LAH]

Is that the one from H&G?

I have a 4 cavity mold from Ballisticast that is the spitting image of that one.

It is a spitting image because that bullet came from a Ballist-Cast mould just like yours.

[Bazoo]

Well, I got some catching up to do. I skimmed several pages, and it's a quite interesting discussion. I'll start on page 1 and work my way down. Thanks LAH.

[LAH]

You're welcome my friend. It's a pretty good read.

[Onty]

Thank you LAH and others for this incredible thread, going for 20-th year. I learned so much. And also, thank you for pictures and video when visiting Keith's grave, very touching. I am in another part of the world, but my big wish is to see all great western states and important historical sites. About 20 years ago I was in Wichita, KS, and was thinking about going to see Boot Hill in Dodge City, KS. Didn't want to go alone, those who promised to go with me backed off, and on the end, I had to return to Toronto, without going there. A big mistake, I will never make again!

Anyhow, I received recently first batch (500) of MP-Molds #503 (their MP 432-256 PB SOLID, https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...lid-6-cav-alu/ ):

503-SWC.jpg

Didn't have a chance to try them yet. Hopefully, some time in second half of January. Testing guns will be stainless SBH 7.5" from Ransom Rest, stainless SBH 5.5" converted to Bisley, blue Bisley 7.5" (all three mine), and friends' Redhawk 7.5" and at least on S&W N-frame. Brass Starline, primer LP GINEX, powder Vihtavuori N340, just to get 1100-1200 fps.

The brass mold is not #503, but rather 45-503-SWC. Miha at MP-Molds makes mold by peripheral milling, using profile end mill cutter, so when I put proposal for .45 bullet, using cutter initially created to make #503, he made a run:

45-503-SWC.jpg

More here https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ty-brass-mould . Bullet came 290 grains and meplat dia about .310". Unfortunately, at that time I moved, didn't have any 45 revolver to test noted bullet. Comment from that thread:

"Have shot about 150 rounds from this mould. Now getting 3" groups with 64 year old tri focal eyes. That will be at 25 yards and sand bags. Using a cranky 4-5/8" ruger black hawk that has been giving me fits till I blew some 250 grit down the barrel. Makes a good all around slug. Mine drops at 284 grains with my blend of 1 to 2 Mono type and pure lead. Load was 8.2 grains of unique with this 13 bhn slug. If you shoot 45's you need to get this mould, you will not be sorry. thanks for the great craftmenship on building a really nice mould."

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post1402058

My comment just bellow it:

I would love to see how this boolit will shoot with HS-6 using load bellow. Since 45-503-SWC is more out from case than RCBS 45-270-SAA SWC, pressure should be even lower than listed bellow. Unfortunately, I am working away from home...

Back when I was working up loads with the 284 grain Scovill bullet (the RCBS 45-270-SAA SWC), the best load I found in my guns was 13.0 grains of HS-6, which gave 1050-1150 fps, depending on barrel length, and excellent accuracy. According to the pressure data in the Hodgdon manual, this load generates roughly 22,000 CUP (again, not suitable for older, or weaker sixguns). So, naturally, I tried that load with the 280 grain (25-1 alloy) Miha Prevec HP. Once again, I got very good accuracy and velocities averaged 1162 fps. I like HS-6, it is a very useful revolver powder.

See http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMpMolds.htm

Unfortunately, http://www.lasc.us website is gone. Too bad because they had a lot of excellent articles. Anybody has info are they somewhere archived?

Also:

DIY HEAVY HITTERS FOR YOUR .45 COLT

503 .45

This is simply a .44 slug in the same style of Elmer’s famous .44 slug, as made by Hensley & Gibbs, but in .45 caliber dimensions. The larger caliber drops these slugs at a hefty 290 grains of Elmer perfection. A good shooter, 20 grains of 2400 or 22 grains of H110 will easily go over 1,200 FPS in most handguns and provide all the accuracy you can hold.

****************

Back to .44 #503. Few years back I stumbled upon post written by Terry Murbach how effective is 454424 at just 1100 fps, so I started the thread Revolver for handgun hunting, another view.

To make long story short, I said; if 454424, with meplat .330"-.340" dia, 260 grains, at 1100 fps, is so effective, why not to have #503, that comes about 260 grains from MP-Molds mold, but enlarged meplat on .330", weight 267 grains, for better knock down and wound channel on larger game as wild boar or whitetail. So, here is my proposal:

44-503-267-MD330.jpg

My point is that this modified #503 will make 44 Magnum on a par with 45 Colt loaded with 454424. Having 267 grains bullet, lunched from 44 Magnum at 1100 fps will be a peace of cake. Noted velocity with many powders are just starting loads, easy on revolver, easy on brass, and most important, easy on hands and ears (when fired in a hurry, without earmuffs).

As for realization of this idea, nah, didn't go any step further. Maybe one day...

[LAH]

Thank you LAH and others for this incredible thread, going for 20-th year. I learned so much. And also, thank you for pictures and video when visiting Keith's grave, very touching.

You are most welcome. I had no idea this would be a sticky & certainly no idea it would contain over 500 posts & a half million views. It truly humbles this hillbilly.

[LAH]

The Keith style bullet is truly a thing of beauty. Along with the RF it just looks right. This is a 44-310 along side the 475-400. I sold both these under the Dry Creek Bullet Works brand.
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