Anyone ever use PC to increase the diameter of jacketed projectiles?

[Tripplebeards]

My special run Remington 7600 carbine chambered in 35 whelen slugged at .358” last time I checked. I have tried 180 grain hot cores, 200 grain Hornady, factory 200 grain super performance ammo, and 180 grain triple shocks. I’ve tried several powders and ladder tests. The absolute best groups were 1.5” after tins of ladder testing. That was with the hand loaded triple shocks and fsctory Hornady ammo. All the rest I didn’t even measure. Probably 2” plus groups. The gun had feeding issues right out of the box. I sent it back to Remington right before they went belly up. I asked them to replace the barrel and fix the feeding. The feeding issue was a lot better when it came back. They never replaced the barrel and said it was within spec. I finally pulled it out of the safe a few days ago after a few birthdays of it collecting dust. I took it to the range to test 3 different powders with ladder tests using 180 grain hot cores. Needless to say it was shooting horrible groups again probably 2”/2.5” plus on average at 100 yards. I haven’t tried heavier jacketed ammo in it yet. I have 220 grain hot cores and a few 250 grainers laying around. Just debating in tumble coating any more jacketed projectiles before try them to gain another two thousands diameter. Cast won’t cycle in my gun. Gave up on trying so I am going to try to increase the diameter with PCing jacketed ammo. If that doesn’t work it’s going to get sold off. Ive about had it with my bucket list pumper. I’ve watched them sell for $3500 to a grand more on GB. I’d rather keep it and make it shoot. Anyone try PCing jacketed ammo?

[Tripplebeards]

I PCd three different jacketed bullets today I'll post pictures in a little bit since apparently it says imager says I'm at Max Capacity for photos but I can upload them from a different device without a problem for some reason. I decided to change colors on them so one bullet had one coat one bullet had two coats and one bullet had three coats of PC. After the third coat of PC I made the mistake of trying to run one through my .3595" Lee die that I honed out. I found out the hard way that a warm PCd j word sticks in a sizing die. I had to take that thing out and put it in my Vise and pound it out backwards. I drilled a hole through the back of that bullet for five times and kept pounding it out. I chipped a couple threads in the dye anf chewed up the Locking nut. Once I finally got the jacketed bullet out I ground down the nut on the two sides that got chewed up. The two threads that got chipped still thread just fine luckily the inside of the die is fine which is what counts. There was PC chunks stuck all over inside of the dye and I would assume it's because it wasn't cured yet when I tried to size it. I learned never to size a warm bullet fresh out of the oven with PC. After I finally got that one out which had three coats of PC on it and was .370" to begin with sized Down to. 3595"...with a hollow hole in the base from non stop drilling to get it out. I then came back in the house cleaned out the dye and then lubed up the one coat J words and ran them through. I was paranoid so I rubbed case Lube on the first couple ones to get Lube in the dye . They all went through just fine so I went to the second set of bullets I had two coats on. They all ran through just fine. So then I was brave enough to put lube on another three coater that I stuck and it ran through just fine and all the rest did too. So I learned only to put one coat on jacketed from now on. One coat and they look pretty smooth anyways. The second and third coat is kind of bumpy but I'm sure it won't affect accuracy that much. All three different bullets went through with Force when I size them down to .3595". I never did measure those bullets before I powder coated them so I grabbed each box and measured them. Speer 220 grain hor cores were .358", hornady 200 grainers were .357", and the 250 grain hornady Spire points were .357". I also hada few 250 grain Norma that I didn't PC but measured. They were .3565". No wonder why my 35 whelen that slugged at .358" hasn't been grouping worth a darn. I'll have to measure the 180 grain hot cores that didn't group worth q darn. I would expect to get better groups with .3595" PC j words now that they will be larger than slugged diameter.

Below is my picture of all three j words. The one on the left are Speer 220 grain and have two coats. The one in the middle is the Hornady 250 grain spire point and have one coat and the one on the right are the Hornady 200 grain spire points and have three coats. I’m holding one of the 200 grain Hornady spire points with 3 coats that I had to drill and pound out of my sizing die because I tried to size it while it was still fresh out of the oven. They are all sized at .3595”. The more coats the more force it took to size them needless to say. It took a good amount of force just with one coat of PC. So it grew over 3,000th’s with a good thick tumble coat of PC. The three coaters grew from .358” to .370” before I sized them down to .3595”.

[Barry54]

I think the 220s are discontinued, so cherish the ones you have left.

Looking forward to your range report!

[Tripplebeards]

Yeah, they are. I think I have 200 of them. They’re the only ones that probably will work in my gun. I’m guessing. I think I’m gonna load them all up with either H4895 or Varget in a .5 grain ladder test.

I would assume my 35 whelen (that slugs at .358”) should slug around .357”? Both my 35 Rems slug at .357”. I find it odd that both boxes of Hornady projectiles measure .357” and my Norma at .3565”. I would assume manufactures claims of .358” projectiles are a “guesstimate” on their part… or I just have some out of spec projectiles?

It doesn’t shock me. A few years ago I had some 180 grain hot cores that were my wrinkling and crushing my 35 Rem case necks when trying to seat. And some of them were almost .360”. Speer had me send them back at the time and confirm they were out of spec and replaced them months later when they finally got them back in stock. I would assume both my Hornadys are under spec. The Norma I couldn’t care less since I only have about a dozen or so.

[Walter Laich]

I learned never to size a warm bullet fresh out of the oven with PC.

respectfully, I normally size as soon as bullets are cool enough to pick up.
all lead
sizing to what the mold says it is, i.e.: .452 bullet mold sized in .452 sizing die

the warm lead is easier to size and it gives me something to do between the baking time of the current bullets in the oven.

[Tripplebeards]

Bare boolits have never given me any problems sizing warm. IMO it was the "thick" 3 coats of PC with "3d" looking blotches that imo gave me trouble. Once they cooled down the boolits went through my sizer just fine...with some force and case lube. Some of the warm uncured PC did come off in the sizer when I drilled and pounded it off. Zero PC came off when sizing them after they cooled to room temperature.


I loaded them yesterday. I tried a test loading without billing the case mouth and found out it scraped the PC right off. I ended up flailing all the case mouths, seating, and then crimping with a lee factory crimp collet die turned down approx a quarter turn



After belling, seating, and crimping.




All the test ammo is loaded to 3.100" and with ladder tests of H4895. I'll try to get out tomorrow to test. Coated 200 grain Hornady spite points, 220 grain Speer, and 250 grain Hornady Spire points. If the 220 or 250 grain shoot good I'll try the same load with out PC to test again since I've never tried either of them in my gun yet.

So when PCing Jwords they have to have the mouths bells or thr PC will scrape off just like cast boolits.

None of three Jwords have a smooth coat of PC on them. I wanted to get some thick coverage on them. If it tightens my groups I'll try and bounce the extra off next round. I did try but I had bare looking spots of color. I'll just coat with clear PC next time around if it works for alot smoother and even coverage. One coat of thick PC was more than enough to grow them over 3000th thickness because pushing them through my .3595" took some arm wresting. I could have seating them quite a but further out but figured I didn't want to "stick" any at longer lengths with a larger diameter PCd j word. I also didn't crimp my test load to see if they cycled in my pump. I did try each one after seating longer without knocking the bells down after seating and they chambered with a little force so inseated them pretty close to published OAL data with the loads I tried. Figured after the couple of first couple of shots I'll know pretty quickly if it tightens up my grouping. If it does I'll habe to clean the j words next time before tumbling so they coat mote even and smoother. The traffic blue 250 grain Hornady Spire points on the left only have one coat...and look the nicest. The other 2 have 2 coats and blotchy looking and feeling. Imo ot probably won't affect 100 yard accuracy. I'm sure a nice even coat of clear PC will keep them more stream lined for longer range accuracy providing this experiment works to tighten groups with Jwords.

[Tripplebeards]

Finally took the gun to the range today to try my PC jword ladder tests. Got everything out, target stapled up, gun in the lead sled and let a three shot group fly. I stapled 3, 14” inch targets side-by-side. I aimed for one of the small boxes on the lower middle target I put up. I had it zeroed at 100 yards from last time. Out of the three shots only one hit all three pieces of paper side-by-side!!! it hit the paper on the right way high probably 14 inches or more to the right and high. Other two never hit the targets!!! so over 3 feet wide and 14 inches tall and two didn’t even hit and I was aiming at the middle one! Immediately looked at the gun to try and figure out what had to have come loose. I saw right away that my pump was touching the barrel. I picked the gun out of the sled and I could move the pump away from the gun! The magazine tube came loose for the second time with this gun. Magazine tube on the 7600 models holds the barrel in place. So my barrel was wiggling loose along with the magazine tube and my pump. I sent it to Remington because it wasn’t feeding and also told him that the magazine tube came loose. Gonna replace the magazine tube and never got around to it and sent me a couple of extra ones. Remington told me they tightened it had a three-quarter inch group with 200 grain factory loads… which I call “bull pucky” on them that they did. It’s been sitting in my safe ever cents and I never shot it till the other day and it was shooting fist size groups. It obviously couldn’t hit paper today. I’ve tightened that magazine tube a couple of times now. It had to been a good three or four turns out if not more today. When I got home, I completely took it apart, cleaned all the threads and blue loc tited it back together. Hopefully that’ll keep it I’m coming loose again in the future. I was at the range. I also noticed that the screw holding the pump in the uncle Mike’s kit had came loose as well. When I reinstalled the pump after adding blue lock tite to the magazine threads noticed it was now touching the barrel when it flexed to the left. I took it off and grabbed the doll and started sanding the inside of the pump handle. We got it to the point where it wasn’t touching. I added some true oil to the inside of the pump on top of the bare wood and reassembled. It then touched again! As I’m doing this, I’m was talking to my buddy on the phone who has his own gunsmith shop for decades. We were talking about up coming youth gun season with his kids and he didn’t understand what I was doing at the time because we were just shooting the breeze about 30 other subjects of the day. After him giving me crap about my pump he then asked me what was going on with my fore end again. He then told me to twist the pump the opposite way while I tightened it. Sure enough it’s perfectly centered and free floated now. I’m sure I never had to sand the channel..but, oh well… at least it has a little bit more “ pump slop” clearance. I’ll let that Loctite sit for a day or so before I go out and retest. Have to load up a few more rounds to zero it in. I’m sure it probably jarred the scope enough that it’s not zeroed anymore. I swear that 7600 chamber and 35 Whelen is jinxed. Thats either the second or third time that tube has come loose. Hopefully adding Loctite to it and cleaning the threads first will keep it together from now on and improve my groups. I’m sure that’s why I was shooting crappy groups the other day besides using undersized J words.


This gun did not want to feed worth a darn. Sent it back to Remington right before they went bankrupt. They at least have it feeding good with jacketed ammo. I also told them it didn’t want a group or the darn and it was hoping they change the barrel out. No luck with that they sent it back with the same barrel. The barrel did come loose while I was shooting test groups. Sent it to Remington with that issue as well and they said they tightened the magazine tube. I’m guessing they didn’t tighten it very much or at all. I’m hoping between loc titing the magazine tube and pump attachment bolt it will stop rattling loose. Also with adjusting the pump to free float will finally improve my groups. This gun I swear is jinxed.

[Tripplebeards]

Finally got out today to try those powder coated J words. I didn’t have any thing loaded up to recheck my zero so I grabbed some H4895 which was the closest powder to me and some 180 grain hot cores that haven’t been powered coated. I googled Hodgdon online to check load data. Decided to load it at starting load data for H4895. Weird it shot so good because just about all my guns shoot the best with max load data using jacketed bullets. It also looked too short of an overall length at 3.030” figure I didn’t care cause all I was doing was checking zero before trying out my powder coated ladder tests. Shot at 25 yards and I was an inch low and left. I then went out to 100 yards and figured why not shoot a group of three with those random rounds I loaded up. All three touched at 100 yards! Well, I figured that’s my new load. I had two more rounds and zeroed my gun with them for that load. The three shot group was a bull’s-eye 4 inches to the left of where I was aiming at 100 yards but now I’m a half inch high and dead center. I did try one group of three of the PC’d 200 grain Hornadys with a max book load. It shot about MOA or a quarter in larger at most. I didn’t waste time measuring it since I was already mind set on the the hot cores. They never shot good for me previously but I’m guessing the pump touching the barrel previously didn’t help my groups…along with the barrel that kept coming loose. Well at least I conquered my demons with this rifle! It’s never shot good for me since day one. That barrel has come loose several times, the pump has come loose several times, and the pump has been touching the barrel. Free floating the pump and loc titing fixed my issues. I’m sure the undersized jacked bullets will still shoot poor groups but the hot core measure .358/.3585 so they are as big and some bigger than my .358” slugged barrel.

[Tripplebeards]

I pulled my all PC ladder tests today. Figured I would save the H4895 powder for my 180 grain hot core load and re use the primers as well. The blue PC’d bullets with one and 2 coats of blue stayed on 100% after pulling. The purple 3 coat bullets had the PC coming off. I would guess those jacketed bullets had oil on them before PCing. I never cleaned any pf them before PCing. They flaked off the PC when I pulled them and into my powder. I sifted the powder about 4 times and don't see any now mixed with the H4895 from my pulled loads. I would guess, even with micro particles of PC in my powder (if there is any) isn't going to contaminate or brake down my powder? I also am sending both the 200 grain and 250 grain undersized bullets to hornady to be replaced. They emailed a call tag. Projectiles are already on their way back. Hornady said they would measure them and report back. Hornady also said they would send replacement boxes regardless of what they measure. My .358”, 180 grain, barnes are also under sized at .357" which explains why my .358" slugged barrel will not group worth a darn with them either. Im sure my 35 remington with a slugged .357" barrel would shoot them well…but with a carbine length barrel IMO probably not fast enough to get them to open up. Since Hornady was so easy to swap my projectiles out i might try and contact Barnes and also Norma on the .358" oryx that are .3565". Imo manufactures must be having issues with the .358" production. The Speer hot cores that i am having good groups measure .358"/.3585". They were replaced by Speer a few years back. I was ruining 35 Rem brass when trying to seat them. They were crushing the necks. I did a post in them here asking for help on why it was happening. I ended up measuring the .358” Hot Cores. They were from .3595" to .363”. The replacements came back at .358/.3585”. Took a whole season to get replacements but it was worth it.


Here are the pulled PC’d jacket bullets. You can see Smoke’s blue held on great. The purple ones I mixed a bunch of different colors didn’t bond. I would guess the projectiles had oil and dirt on them.



Here’s the powder after I shifted it several times and you can see the flaked off PC that I sifted out of it.




And an example of my undersized bullets ..



Brand new caliper. I measured my slug with the brand new caliper and it’s still at .358” just like it was with the old caliper.


You can see a purple PC projectile in the bag. It didn’t come off that one and that one was a 220 grain Speer. The ones at the PC were coming off of were 200 grain Hornady . They must have been dirty. And learn to clean the jacketed project off before PC.


The only ones that I saved are the 220s the other two went back to horn today in the boxes they came in. They’re aware of what I did with the powder coating to try and increase diameter. They got a kick out of it.lol. Oh, and I forgot I also wrecked my Lyman kinetic bullet pulling hammer. Those pointy 250 grain hornady projectiles blew the bottom right out. I don’t have the receipt for it, but it got bought for me around Christmas time last year so hopefully Lyman takes care of it. I had to send them a picture in an email. They won’t get back to me till next week now, but hopefully someone takes care of it on their end since it’s under a year old and still under warranty.


So anyways, the follow up on this post. PC looks like it sticks quite well to copper plated J words as long as they are clean to begin with. Also just tumble ONE coat. It’s all that is needed. The extra coats, and then the surface becomes uneven and bumpy and will end up scraping off when seating. So make sure to flare the bells just like if you were going to load for a cast bullet. Someday I’ll get around to testing those 220 Grain Speer that I powder coated with two coats.

[Tripplebeards]

Got a hold of Barnes this morning. They’re going to send a return label and measure my undersized .358”’s as well. Guess I’ll find out if my two calipers are off then I measured them with. Both calipers also measured my slug at .358”. So my barrel is bigger than the bullet. They did try to tell me to load them super short, and that bullet likes to jump. It’s super short right now or it won’t feed out of the magazine. Either way if it’s smaller than the barrel, I’m sure it’s not gonna shoot worth the darn. Sometimes I’m on a roll. I’ll have to talk to Norma about the .3565” meaured .358’s that are bigger then minute of pie plate.