So I Bought This 92 Rossi in .45 Colt

[jonp]

No dog in this fight but I am curious about something. Why include test barrel specifications? Doesn't industry run on the Saami specs? If the rifle falls into those, in this case it appears to be the outer end of the tolerance but still in the Saami specs then...?

Did I miss the reason for this?

[zack]

No dog in this fight but I am curious about something. Why include test barrel specifications?

To reinforce his statement that a .454 barrel was out of SAAMI spec. Doesn't industry run on the Saami specs? If the rifle falls into those, in this case it appears to be the outer end of the tolerance but still in the Saami specs then...? Yes. A .45 Colt barrel with a groove dia. of .454 is in SAAMI spec.(look at Sandspider's drawing.)

Did I miss the reason for this?

No, I don't think you missed anything. Had me fooled too. I saw that diagram and thought it was revelant but then Sandspider showed that it's not.

To my knowlege, SAAMI is like a Chamber of Commerce for firearm manufactures. A standard. You can choose to member a member, or not.
And yes, Taurus Holdings is a member.

[35 Whelen]

Ok.


This is the cartridge drawing and chamber drawing of a 40 s&w.

Notice the cartridge drawing has diameters on it, and it specifies body diameter, unless otherwise noted can be as much as .006 smaller. This could have also been written as "all diameters unless otherwise noted" and it would have meant the same thing. As the bullet and the rim already have a range, and would be in the unless otherwise noted category.

Now see the Chamber drawing, and ALL the diameters that are included on it. It has the throat and leade diameters, it has the bore and groove diameters, there's all kinds of diameters included on this chamber drawing.

Now, for ALL the diameters on this drawing, they can be up to .004 larger unless otherwise noted.



Now here's the test barrel drawing for the 40 s&w, this is what's to be used to pressure and velocity test ammunition, it's held to much tighter tolerances. See ALL the diameters on the test barrel drawing, it has the throat and leade diameter, it has the bore and groove diameter, it has the rear of the chamber diameter, it has the end of the chamber diameter, it has all kinds of diameters.


Now for every single diameter on this drawing, ALL of them, unless otherwise noted, it can be up to .0005 larger. Also notice the break line at the barrel and the note "Land and groove dimensions to be within tolerance throughout length of barrel". Everything on the test barrel, chamber included is much tighter than a saami spec one, to give consistent results when testing ammunition.

I really think you're confusing chamber allowances with bore allowances. The illustrations state CHAMBER, not CHAMBER AND BARREL.



If what you're suggesting is true, then a .300 H&H, that fires a .308" bullet, with a barrel whose groove diameter were .310" would fall within SAAMI specs.

[Griff]

My only 45 Colt Rossi is one imported by EMF, their "Hartford" "Short Rifle" mdl. It has a 20" non-tapered octagon bbl. (0.815" at the receiver & 0.815" at the muzzle. I bought it in 2004 for my son as he'd moved from .38 handguns to .45s and wanted a matching rifle. Since it resides in my safe, it's fair game for me to test loads with and sometimes take to the range just to plink. It's general "cowboy" fodder is a 200 grain RFN over 3.9 grains of TiteGroup. I've tested several "hunting" loads with it, up to 6 grains of RedDot behind a 225 grain bullet cast from a RCBS 45-225-CAV mold. I size both bullets to .452, as with 4 handguns & 6 rifles in 45 Colt, I prefer a little interchangeability... The 6 grain RedDot load is predicted to develop near 14,000 psi by QuickLoad, but really isn't listed as near max according to any of my reloading manuals.

When it arrived, I cleaned all the grease out of it, and slicked it up like I had done on two previous Rossis. Took a couple of coils off the ejector spring and polished the bolt sides, locking lugs and sharp areas anywhere found. I've used it with the 200 grain RFN in cowboy action &, Wild Bunch. The 225 grain TC for a couple of hunts. That 225 TC bullet from the RCBS mold smacks things with authority. Neither hog hit bothered to get up (approx 50 yds). I believe it has the 1:38" twist, but it performs admirably with the 200 & 225 bullets. I don't need to make a 45-70 out of it... I have an 1886 for that chore. I do have a box of Ruger/TC loads with a J-word 240 HP for social encounters, that also group well.

[Sandspider500]

I really think you're confusing chamber allowances with bore allowances. The illustrations state CHAMBER, not CHAMBER AND BARREL.



If what you're suggesting is true, then a .300 H&H, that fires a .308" bullet, with a barrel whose groove diameter were .310" would fall within SAAMI specs.

Did you see that "saami spec" bullet diameter range?


You can go out and buy ammo with a .306 bullet loaded in it and be within saami spec.

[Sandspider500]

That's a beautiful rifle Griff.

[Griff]

That's a beautiful rifle Griff.

Thank you... The owner of EMF at the time picked it out, knew it was for my son. We'd shot a lot of cowboy matches together when I lived in CA. I was quite surprised when I opened it up.

[zack]

Check this out 35 Whelen. .45 Colt max bullet dia is .456, and then a -tolerance of .006, so from .450 to .456. Compare the two drawings and do the math.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...12-13-2022.pdf page 50

[jonp]

My only 45 Colt Rossi is one imported by EMF, their "Hartford" "Short Rifle" mdl. It has a 20" non-tapered octagon bbl. (0.815" at the receiver & 0.815" at the muzzle. I bought it in 2004 for my son as he'd moved from .38 handguns to .45s and wanted a matching rifle. Since it resides in my safe, it's fair game for me to test loads with and sometimes take to the range just to plink. It's general "cowboy" fodder is a 200 grain RFN over 3.9 grains of TiteGroup. I've tested several "hunting" loads with it, up to 6 grains of RedDot behind a 225 grain bullet cast from a RCBS 45-225-CAV mold. I size both bullets to .452, as with 4 handguns & 6 rifles in 45 Colt, I prefer a little interchangeability... The 6 grain RedDot load is predicted to develop near 14,000 psi by QuickLoad, but really isn't listed as near max according to any of my reloading manuals.

When it arrived, I cleaned all the grease out of it, and slicked it up like I had done on two previous Rossis. Took a couple of coils off the ejector spring and polished the bolt sides, locking lugs and sharp areas anywhere found. I've used it with the 200 grain RFN in cowboy action &, Wild Bunch. The 225 grain TC for a couple of hunts. That 225 TC bullet from the RCBS mold smacks things with authority. Neither hog hit bothered to get up (approx 50 yds). I believe it has the 1:38" twist, but it performs admirably with the 200 & 225 bullets. I don't need to make a 45-70 out of it... I have an 1886 for that chore. I do have a box of Ruger/TC loads with a J-word 240 HP for social encounters, that also group well.

Are those diagonal lines actually in the wood? That's a great looking rifle.

[Griff]

Are those diagonal lines actually in the wood? That's a great looking rifle.

Yep. Thank you.