Two fer buy

[Mk42gunner]

The one thing I firmly believe about old guns is to "Never say never".

What is the actual chamber on the #3? .22 Short or Long or Long Rifle? I guess it could also be the .22 Extra Long Your guestimate of the date got me wondering.

Robert

[marlinman93]

All Ballard #3 rifles were chambered in .22 Long, but I own 4 or 5 of them and they will chamber a .22LR fine also.
I rarely say "never", but I am completely stumped how this gun has all the early features, but much too late a serial number? Only answer I can think of doesn't make sense either.
As Marlin built guns the rifles went through numerous departments, so serial numbers were applied to numerous major parts to ensure parts fitted were kept together. So that would tell me serial numbers got applied prior to casehardening, or final finish. But if that happened then the rollstamp wouldn't even be around by 18,000 range. And the flat top receivers were eliminated in the early 1880's also.
Now if all the parts were somehow fitted together, but never got serial numbered when first built, it would result in the parts kept together for years, but no stamps applied, except the receiver stamp. Doesn't seem plausible.
The final theory is the receiver was built, and assembled, but never serial numbers stamped. Then it got misplaced, or discovered 6 years later with the JM Marlin stamp, and flat top on it, and the barrel, and stocks added; then everything serial numbered and finally finished.
This last theory makes the most sense, and it's not unusual for the Marlin factory to misplace parts and later find them to use. When the factory moved in 1969 Bill Brophy (Marlin factory historian) told me he found a number of old Ballard #3 barrels still stored away that were never used! He knew they would all go for scrap price, so he called collectors he knew and gave the brand new barrels away. He also found a huge number of 1891/92 Marlin .22 and .32 barrels, along with a huge number of parts for all of the old 1890's era Marlin repeaters. Those were sold to Numrich Gun Parts in 55 gallon barrels for scrap metal prices.

[Wayne Smith]

So Vall, how do you account for the Birmingham proofs? Could someone in Britan ordered the unstocked rifle, got it proofed, and then it got sent back years later, unfinished? Sounds weird even as I type this.

[marlinman93]

So Vall, how do you account for the Birmingham proofs? Could someone in Britan ordered the unstocked rifle, got it proofed, and then it got sent back years later, unfinished? Sounds weird even as I type this.

No, I'm pretty sure this was a complete rifle when shipped to England. And it would have been special ordered to have the features it has, so would not have been built until Marlin got an order from whoever ordered it in England made the order.
Once it arrived in England it went to the closed proof house in London or Birmingham, and obviously Birmingham was the closest. I'm told that Birmingham has very good records, so my next step is to contact them and see what it might take to possibly see if they have records of the proof work, and who or when it was done.
I can make an educated guess about when based on the serial number, but if there's info recorded it sure would be nice to see what records say! I have sent a "contact us" request to Birmingham, so waiting to see if they have the records, and how far back they go?

[marlinman93]

I got an email reply from the curator of the Birmingham proof house this morning, asking me for the serial number on my Ballard #3! They do keep old records, and he will search my serial number and send me the data as to when it was proofed, and which company brought it in for proof testing! Since there are no Ballard records, this is pretty exciting to pinpoint when a particular serial number was sent to England, and date it's sale.

[BobT]

Nice score!

I found that site also, but nothing stated what shot size those were when I clicked on the items? I'd take about any shot size from #8 to #6, as I just want to shoot it for fun, and wont be hunting.

The shot sizes are on a drop down menu, looks like they have 7, 8 and 9 currently in stock for the Falcon Lite and only #9 for the spreader loads. RST makes good ammo, a little on the pricey side but I have had really good luck with it.

https://www.rstshells.com/store/m/20-Gauge.aspx

[marlinman93]

Nice score!



The shot sizes are on a drop down menu, looks like they have 7, 8 and 9 currently in stock for the Falcon Lite and only #9 for the spreader loads. RST makes good ammo, a little on the pricey side but I have had really good luck with it.

https://www.rstshells.com/store/m/20-Gauge.aspx

I got two boxes of 2.5" 20 gauge at our collector gun show Sunday, and seller told me he's got probably 5 or 6 cases of NOS Peters also if I want more. Doubt I'll shoot the Roller enough to buy a case of shot shells for it.

[gnoahhh]

Vall, thinking out loud here, another possibility - could've Marlin taken an order from an English firm for a couple #3's and in the rush to fill it discovered they didn't have any of the current concave cast receivers, and instead of setting up to do a run of them simply grabbed #2 receivers? I guess it would depend on whether the machinery was dedicated to specific features or was generic in nature requiring re-setting up. Could also explain some of the vagaries we see in some odd rifles.

[marlinman93]

The flat top cast receivers were also used on the #2, so no difference in the two, except the contour of the top. But that wont explain a rollstamp on the left side that had not been used for about a decade before this serial number.

[marlinman93]

Didn't want to get pushy, but sent another email to the museum asking if he'd gotten my serial number info? Got a reply telling me he did, but only works 2 days a week, so no telling when I'll get an answer. Have to just be patient I guess.

[marlinman93]

Got a return email from the museum at Birmingham, and was told all their records were destroyed during bombing in WWII. Why it took so long to tell me this when they were told when my Ballard was made, I just don't know. But it appears their records are no more for pre WWII firearms.

Should have expected the worst, and not gotten my hopes up for an approximate age determination from the museum records. Looks like the Ballard will remain a mystery.

[gnoahhh]

Thanks for the update, Vall. Yet another chance to cuss out the skill (luck) of a bombardier on a JU-88 or Heinkel, I suppose!

[Mk42gunner]

That's too bad, I was hoping the Birmingham Proof House would provide some answers.

It would have been nice if they said at the start that their records only went back to WWII, instead of getting all our hopes up.

Robert

[marlinman93]

That's too bad, I was hoping the Birmingham Proof House would provide some answers.

It would have been nice if they said at the start that their records only went back to WWII, instead of getting all our hopes up.

Robert

Long ago I had contacted the London proof house about old proofed guns, and the first thing they told me was their records only went back to post WWII as they too had been bombed and lost records in fires. But they told me right off, which wasn't as bad as hoping for weeks.