M1 Garand in .308 WIN - just purchased ! LOADS ?

[Fitz]

Hello Doctor Bill, been following this thread for a while, I also purchased a CMP built 308 garand and having trouble seeing my sights, on the front post I replaced the sight with a tritium night sight from Ken sights and drilled out the rear a bit . This setup gives you a white dot in daylight and a green glow in the dark at night

[K43]

Fulton does sell quality parts. They can be a little more expensive than other webstores. I've dealt with them for at least 20 years when they had a walk in store at the office and never been dissatisfied with Garand and M14 parts I purchased. I even purchased two M14SA and two AR15 receivers from them, mainly because they are nearby and I could just go pick them up. Now it's all mail order.
Other webstores like Orion 7, Apex, and Amherst are also reputable, long time sellers.

[Delkal]

Why are you talking about epoxy? Just tighten the screw and see what happens. I would not say a loose sight is "common" and it is exceedingly rare. If a soldier noticed his elevation was changing he would just tighten it a little with the multi-tool stored in the buttstock.

[K43]

Why are you talking about epoxy? Just tighten the screw and see what happens. I would not say a loose sight is "common" and it is exceedingly rare. If a soldier noticed his elevation was changing he would just tighten it a little with the multi-tool stored in the buttstock.

This.
And the Armory fix was the same as a loose gas cylinder - peen the raceways on the base judiciously. Not whaled on with a huge hammer, just peened enough that it doesn't flop around.

[DoctorBill]

.
As far as I am concerned, peening the metal is not reversable - whereas Epoxy can always be reversed (removed)
by soaking in Acetone for a day.

I will NOT permanently change anything on a Vintage Firearm. Period.

If it came from CMP peened by them - OK.

Has anyone received an M1 Garand from the CMP with a "peen tightened sight" ?
Any "peening' ought to be rather obvious on the part being peened [marks].......

DoctorBill

PS - I get really 'bugged' when I see an old Vintage Rifle "Sporterized" - Blasphemy.
You might as well turn a Duesenburg into a street racer ! Ya....I know, people did just that !

PS-2 Sorry if this offends someone. Don't mean to ! I'm just an opinionated old man.

[country gent]

The original tightening was done by peening. Later by epoxying in with plasti steel or JB weld. Most of the peening was done in the bearing notch in the spring cover of the sight. I have epoxied them to tighten. you will epoxy then lightly lap to get the movement you need. Also is to use a very good release agent. You then file the bottom of the slide flat to the base. this makes a solid stop to bottom so you can count up to different zeros.
Its amazing how well these sights repeat in use, even more so when they are tuned up. The NM version is 1/2 min adjustments
The other common mod to battle sights was drilling and tapping the aperture then sleeving down to the .052 or .056 apeture size of the NM.
The other big mod was cutting the front sight down in height from the original 8-12 click 200 yd zero to 1-2 clicks to keep sights lower for a better check weld. At 100 -200 yds not big deal at 600 it does help. Another was to set the front sight to the rear sights mecanical zero this gives equal windage each way.
Armorers would put a small dowel or punch in the indents in the cover and tap putting more down tension on the sight seating it onto the sides better.

[country gent]

Also to peen the base has to be annealed or there is a big risk of cracking.

[DoctorBill]

Just "ran Into" this by accident....

https://loaddata.com/images/articles...techartnew.pdf

For those who can't view/print a pdf file

Newest 2024 "Powder Burn rate" Data - I am presuming !

It has IMR SR-4759 included !

DoctorBill

[K43]

Old news. That doesn't have the latest introduction powders.

[DoctorBill]

Old news. That doesn't have the latest introduction powders.

and where might we find the very latest "Burn Rates", if I may ask ?

It is 106° outside HERE today.

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

.
I just rcvd my two new M1 Garand rear sight parts from 'SARCO' and 'AmmoParts' on E-Bay.
https://www.EBAY.com/str/packratscollectiblesammogarand
....prices in photo below...........as of this date 7-27-2024.


Both NEW Parts

Now to "Bed" the sliding Peep Sight PINION into the Base Slide with 'Metal' Epoxy to
stop the "wobble" as per YouTube Video previously mentioned in the link below.....

https://youtu.be/kwtOMAkDnww

In that way, I am not permanently altering the sight - as it came from the CMP.
The sight can always be switched back to the way I received this EXCELLENT Rifle.

DoctorBill

[Delkal]

This is for match shooters to maybe pick up a point or two and unneeded by most. Until you can consistently keep groups under 4-5 inches at 100 yards this modification is a waster of time (its not the sights that are the problem).

Edit: just looked at 5 of my Garands and none had a loose rattling peep site. If you push the aperture with moderate pressure you can get a little deflection on two if them but when you release the peep goes back to the center. Since you are having problems with the small match peep site I would just replace it with the standard GI one and see what happens. Your sight picture and any play should be much better.

[K43]

The latest powder releases appear on the manufacturer/distributor website first. They will be the first to incorporate into their own burn rate chart. Some companies test other companies powders and assign a place in their own chart, some just do an interpolation and stick it in. Remember, burn rate charts are what happened in a closed bomb test set up at a particular lab, not an absolute. Powders in a cartridge are not in a closed bomb. For the most part, burn rate charts get you in the neighborhood.
For instance; Vihtavuori N135 is listed in most burn rate charts as slower than IMR 4985. In looking at published load data, you'll see it loads in most cartridges as though it is faster than H4895 and on a par with Ramshot TAC.
Not saying the powder burn rate charts are useless, they do get you in the neighborhood. One must check published data to see if it is really suitable for the desired use.

[K43]

How would anyone know if I peened your sight when I was an armorer and then turned the rifle in to be sold by CMP or you did it in your kitchen? Just like peened barrels to tighten gas cylinders, you won't know. Too much worrying about CMP being the Holy Grail and not understanding you're just getting something that is not "original" as it came out of a factory, has been rebuilt, peened, parts replaced, and repaired in accordance with the Armory manual that says peen that thing.

[Delkal]

I just looked in the Kuhnhausen shop manuals and he has a section on the basic rear sight fitting as well as match modification. The most important part that tensions the aperture is the sight cover. This is not just a simple cover but acts more like a spring. It needs to be swapped out or fitted (bent) so there is increasing tension on the aperture as it is slid in further. If the aperture is more than half way in and there is no tension or a rattle this is the cause . Thinking about it this is why none of my Garands have any play. Its because I properly fit the rear sites decades ago.

The Kuhnhausen manual also has a section on match accurizing the rear site that includes peening, hand lapping with special tools, to annealing and recutting the site base. But no mention of using epoxy. We are at the point where anything we want to believe can be found on the internet but any "gunsmith" who has a long video on his method without the slightest mention of the basic fitting is not to be trusted. They are just trolling for clicks and subscribers. There should be videos on the basic setup on the rear site and fitting the Garand's site cover on youtube. I believe this is what the OP wants to find.

[DoctorBill]

.
I have tried Reloader 15 and have reported on that several post back - #127. Worked well.

I've loaded up about 50 rounds with Varget at 35.6 gr (reduced load)

and

3 rounds with IMR sr 4759 at 21.0 gr (reduced load) as "try out rounds".

If they work well, I will enter such in my 'reloading record' book for posterior.

Been wanting to try them at the range.
Been otherwise occupied and it rained 2 days and the Heat is going up now (103° tomorrow).
The range closes, now, when the fire danger is high. Been A LOT of smoke in this area from
the Wildfires mid-state. Happens every year. California has it bad in the dry areas north of LA.

Did the Epoxy Bedding on my extra sight base and rack.
Had to do it 2x as I boogered up the first try.
Seems quite tight now and sliding up & down nicely w/o wiggling loosely.
I'll install it into the rifle once I watch the YT Video, several times again, on how to do it properly.

DoctorBill

[elmacgyver0]

Garands in .308 are great, but in the original chambering are Heavenly.

[DoctorBill]

.
elmacgyver0 - I ALMOST didn't bid for my .308 WIN M1 Garand on Gunbroker.

I saw it and thought it was not Kosher, not being 30-06 calibre, but since the other auctions
being offered were not looking that good, the winning prices for 30-06 were always too high
for me...AND....my feverish HOTS lusting for an M1 Garand....I went for the .308 M1 !
I did my homework on the M1 having been re-chambered for .308 for the Navy, before I went for it.....(links at end)

I am glad I got it ! Been very HAPPY with it ! Such a nice shooter.

At the range, shooting with my son, with him shooting Factory Ammo in a US M1917 Enfield 30-06 that I
gave him many years ago,.......I watched him getting his shoulder beat up with nasty recoil.

I'm glad I chose reduced recoil reloads, also.

Our range is suffering from Local Rules on Fire Prevention (some jerk shot tracers several years ago in
a hot dry month and started a big wildfire there resulting in more restrictive county rules and Range Re-Construction)
and Club Insurance costs are going higher. The careless, stupid people are going to ruin it for everyone else.

DoctorBill

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...garand-rifles/

https://thegunzone.com/is-308-winche...-7-62x51-nato/

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor.../100437#replay

https://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1G-FAQs/M1_308.htm

https://forums.thecmp.org/forum/cmp-...rt-reliability

https://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/...ds-now-in-308/

[elmacgyver0]

.
elmacgyver0 - I ALMOST didn't bid for my .308 WIN M1 Garand on Gunbroker.

I saw it and thought it was not Kosher, not being 30-06 calibre, but since the other auctions
being offered were not looking that good, the winning prices for 30-06 were always too high
for me...AND....my feverish HOTS lusting for an M1 Garand....I went for the .308 M1 !
I did my homework on the M1 having been re-chambered for .308 for the Navy, before I went for it.....(links at end)

I am glad I got it ! Been very HAPPY with it ! Such a nice shooter.

At the range, shooting with my son, with him shooting Factory Ammo in a US M1917 Enfield 30-06 that I
gave him many years ago,.......I watched him getting his shoulder beat up with nasty recoil.

I'm glad I chose reduced recoil reloads, also.

Our range is suffering from Local Rules on Fire Prevention (some jerk shot tracers several years ago in
a hot dry month and started a big wildfire there resulting in more restrictive county rules and Range re-construction)
and Club Insurance costs are going higher. The careless, stupid people are going to ruin it for everyone else.

DoctorBill

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor.../100437#replay

https://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1G-FAQs/M1_308.htm

https://forums.thecmp.org/forum/cmp-...rt-reliability

https://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/...ds-now-in-308/

You should be happy with it, as I said they are great.

[country gent]

Actually the reason I chose 308 when I rebarreld my garand was because the sources of 30-06 military ammo were drying up 308 was still plentiful. At a leg match you would get battle ammo for 30-06 and M852 match in 308. At NRA matches, regionals and state matches handloaded ammo wasnt a big issue as both use pretty much the same components other than the cases. At the time Portuguese 308 ball ammo was on the shelves for $119.00 per 1000 rds.

The rear sights were peened and tightened by that method as suitable epoxies werent readily available early on then epoxy became available it was used. Its a much easier process and faster.
Clean rear sight and lightly sand surfaces, apply release agent to slide several coats, mix epoxy according to directions. you dont need a lot even on a very loose sight. spread epoxy and slide together, clamp with vise grips so epoxy is in the upper portionand base bottom of slide are steel to steel. remove all excess you can. Let cure. remove slide may take a small punch and brass hammer. if its snug or tight you may need to lapp a little to get the free movement. Here a little flitz simichrome or yellow diamond will get what you want. when assembling the sight you need to "adjust" the cover to provide the correct tension. This process wasnt used to much on battle rifles but was used when building them up to NM rifles.
The peening process was effective but was more equipment intensive as you need an oven to anneal a skilled touch peening ans a lot more lapping when finishing. The other was once annealed it was soft and would wear faster.