What diameter buckshot mold should I buy next?

[barnetmill]

The trick is .4641 times the diameter of the bore (or ID of the shotcup) to get the ideal size for stacking in threes.

The commercial loads of triple ought 000 .36 stack 2x2.
To stack true .36 cal spheres the internal diameter needed is .72.
Ranger Elite 12ga preslit wad Diameter: .715" Wall Thickness: .040"
So it would be a tight fit.
If the wad walls are much thicker than it likely will not work for .36 caliber buck.

[Petander]

It might work in brass hulls. Probably a little snug in plastic. Might dimple the hull. Could cause hard chambering. #1 would fit better but I haven’t checked how well it fits.

Thank you.

One way to find out I guess.

[Kennibear]

You can use a 4 mil (0.004") mylar wrap as the two 000 stacked are 0.72" and the mylar adds 0.004" for 0.008" total and the aggregate is 0.728". But I would use nothing tighter than an Improved Cylinder choke.

KB

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[Barry54]

Be sure to post your 40 yard pattern tests here.

As requested. 40 yard pattern. Ten pellets of home cast 0 buckshot. As cast. Not tumbled. Ten and twenty inch circles drawn with a compass.

Recipe is in post #37

[Barry54]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...arty%92s-Molds

I’ll go ahead and plug my want to buy samples thread here and try to generate some more interest in it. It’s probably lost in the sauce in the swapping and selling section.

[Barry54]

Thank you.

One way to find out I guess.

I was wrong. #1 buckshot is a sloppy fit in a Fiocchi 20 gauge hull. Mine measure 0.301” and the inside of the hull measures 0.630”

[Petander]

I was wrong. #1 buckshot is a sloppy fit in a Fiocchi 20 gauge hull. Mine measure 0.301” and the inside of the hull measures 0.630”

I wonder how these guys are doing it ?

[Barry54]

I wonder how these guys are doing it ?

That’s a good question. If I were to load #1 in 20 gauge with the hulls shown in my photo, I would use a Teflon or Mylar wrap to make the inside diameter slightly smaller. Then I would load eight or ten pellets (I used a new 3” hull for visualization purposes) stacked in pairs. Pour buffer in so there’s a flat surface to crimp against.

So how are they loading nine pellets???

Are they using undersized pellets and stacking in clusters of three? Are their hulls thinner, allowing stacks of three? Or both?

[Barry54]

I searched Monarch 20 gauge #1 buckshot and found Academy sports has the same image you posted.

Monarch is their cheap store brand. I had a bad experience with the brand with pistol bullets getting pushed deeper into the case when going from the magazine to the chamber. (A condition that increases chamber pressure!) I forget what country they were manufactured in, but haven’t touched the brand since that incident.

I would not be surprised if something shady to outright deceptive was going on with that particular product. Best case is they are using “European sizing” and smaller pellets are being loaded in stacks of three...

[Petander]

I would not be surprised if something shady to outright deceptive was going on with that particular product. Best case is they are using “European sizing” and smaller pellets are being loaded in stacks of three...

Could be that. Why,oh why, can't we all just talk about actual pellet diameters instead of a bunch of zeros...

EDIT: I googled Monarch ammo. Got headache. It is made in Philippines,Spain,Serbia,Russia, Brazil and Canada,to name a few.

No way to find out. Better stay clear.

[RMc]

As requested. 40 yard pattern. Ten pellets of home cast 0 buckshot. As cast. Not tumbled. Ten and twenty inch circles drawn with a compass.

Recipe is in post #37

That is an excellent 40 yard pattern!

Some additional thoughts:

If you try that 1.25 ounce MG42 buffered load data with twelve .31" buckshot or with fourteen .30" buckshot, you may find both pattern uniformity and pattern diameter tighten further.

The additional space between pellets in the two pellet per layer stack, combined with the shallow angle between pellet layers, tend to facilitate a smoother pellet flow through forcing cone and choke constrictions.

Both pellet sizes, (.31" & .30"), should fall within the industry loading data standard of 20 grains + from the stated data shot weight.

[Hogtamer]

How was the gun choked on that target pic? Don’t know what you’re looking for but that’s a better pattern than most factory loads. That’s a dead deer or hog anywhere. Try a full choke if you haven’t already.

[barnetmill]

Could be that. Why,oh why, can't we all just talk about actual pellet diameters instead of a bunch of zeros...

EDIT: I googled Monarch ammo. Got headache. It is made in Philippines,Spain,Serbia,Russia, Brazil and Canada,to name a few.

No way to find out. Better stay clear.

Pellets diameters are better if we are including overseas loadings that often use different diameters for buckshot that are labeled as 0, 00, and for the other sizes.

[Barry54]

If you try that 1.25 ounce MG42 buffered load data with twelve .31" buckshot or with fourteen .30" buckshot, you may find both pattern uniformity and diameter tighten further.

This is because the additional space between pellets in the two pellet per layer stack, combined with the shallow angle between pellet layers, will create an even smoother pellet flow through forcing cone and choke constrictions.

Both pellet sizes should stay within the industry loading data standard of 20 grains + from the stated data shot weight.

You’ve got me curious now. After coming up with the best patterning buckshot load I’ve ever tried, you say there’s a likelihood it could be improved. I don’t know that I would want a tighter pattern of buckshot at 40 yards, but better uniformity is appealing. As in a less elongated pattern.

Let me ask you this. If the magic happens with pellets in stacks of two, due to the contact angles of the pellets, then why didn’t 000 pattern great? No shotcup? Too little space in a 12 gauge barrel?

[Barry54]

How was the gun choked on that target pic? Don’t know what you’re looking for but that’s a better pattern than most factory loads. That’s a dead deer or hog anywhere. Try a full choke if you haven’t already.

I appreciate the compliment! Thank you!!

I was using a Carlsons extended buckshot choke. I don’t remember the measurements but it was close to the factory full choke. They were 0.010” from each other.

I was looking for a tight pattern with buckshot. I feel like I successfully accomplished it. I was trying to get there with larger (heavier) pellets. When using these smaller pellets, I was trying to use more pellets in stacks of three. But they spread out as big as a truck door. Yes, I wanted a heavier payload, but I’ll compromise with a load that patterns that well!

I posted my success so anyone else looking for a better buckshot load can try it.

[RMc]

You’ve got me curious now. After coming up with the best patterning buckshot load I’ve ever tried, you say there’s a likelihood it could be improved. I don’t know that I would want a tighter pattern of buckshot at 40 yards, but better uniformity is appealing. As in a less elongated pattern.

Let me ask you this. If the magic happens with pellets in stacks of two, due to the contact angles of the pellets, then why didn’t 000 pattern great? No shotcup? Too little space in a 12 gauge barrel?

Let me see if I can clarify a bit. Focus on the the concept of fluid transit through choke constriction. The diameter, (.36"), of 000B virtually eliminates side to side space between pellets in the stack layer. I contend this severly restricts the fluid response of the pellet stack to additional radial compression, aka choke constriction.

Now look at the function of space between buckshot in two pellet layers. This gives slightly smaller buckshot pellets a bit of "running room" to shift inward. Combine this with a shallow angle, say under 45 degrees, between the stack layers. And, arguably, this allows the buckshot column to readily elongate under the influence of choke constriction.

[Blood Trail]

My favorite size is #1 buck. Next will be single aught buck.

I’ve had great groups with #00 and larger, I just like a little more pellets in shot string. I test everything at 50 yards and go from there.

Been playing around with TSS in #T and #4 buck. #4buck is a little too much for deer, but still having fun with it.

I’ll be hunting with #T TTS this year.







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[Tripplebeards]

Always wanted a #4 lee mold. Some day!

[Barry54]

Let me see if I can clarify a bit. Focus on the the concept of fluid transit through choke constriction. The diameter, (.36"), of 000B virtually eliminates side to side space between pellets in the stack layer. I contend this severly restricts the fluid response of the pellet stack to additional radial compression, aka choke constriction.

Now look at the function of space between buckshot in two pellet layers. This gives slightly smaller buckshot pellets a bit of "running room" to shift inward. Combine this with a shallow angle, say under 45 degrees, between the stack layers. And, arguably, this allows the buckshot column to readily elongate under the influence of choke constriction.

Thanks for the compliment on my 40 yard pattern!

I just measured a Carlsons “improved modified” choke for an 835 Mossberg. The inlet side was around 0.790” and the exit was around 0.738” with my calipers I got from Sam Sackett.

Looking inside the barrel, there’s no visible forcing cone. Do you think 000 at the nominal 0.360” would pattern tightly from this shotgun barrel choke combination? I think 8 fit in a 2-3/4” 12 gauge load.

[RMc]

The commercial loads of triple ought 000 .36 stack 2x2.
To stack true .36 cal spheres the internal diameter needed is .72.
Ranger Elite 12ga preslit wad Diameter: .715" Wall Thickness: .040"
So it would be a tight fit.
If the wad walls are much thicker than it likely will not work for .36 caliber buck.

Which is why current factory loaded "000B" pellets actually run .345" to .350" for a better fit. Indeed, Hornady 5 pound boxes of 000B for handloaders have the .350" pellet diameter printed on the label.

As for the 9 pellet #1B 20 gauge factory loads, these are loaded with the current defacto standard .285" pellets just like Winchester and Federal #1B in 12 gauge loads.

The Winchester Mark 5 buckshot line, announced in 1963, started the modern buckshot performance revolution. Yes, the Mark 5 line introduced plastic shot collars and buffer for improved patterns. And, used slightly reduced diameter pellets that were required to accomodate the plastic shot collar with a 3 per layer pellet stack.

Ahem - 61 years ago.

Even SAAMI voluntary industry standards allow buckshot pellets + .015" from nominal.