Streamlining Softnose Production

[Marlin Junky]

Earlier, I was thinking of not removing the boolit from SAECO 352 until she's done but now I'm thinking it actually might be easier to cast with two pots and two dippers. I can't get my Lyman MagDipper very hot but I sure can do 870F with my MasterCaster, the latter of which will hold the hard alloy and "cook" the mold. The only problem might be keeping the nose formula hot enough in the tiny dipper so it will completely empty into SAECO 352.

MJ

Oh, oh... I don't think I have enough power to run two pots

Well... back to the pre-cast nose idea.

[robertbank]

For the handgun bullets I have cast I used my Lee Production pot for my hard alloy and had a smaller cast iron pot on my Coleman stove. Got my mold hot by casting bullets then set it in the melt on the stove. Once the lead would run off the mold I used my 9MM case dipper to pour the lead nose. I then kept the mold level as I could and poured the shank from the Production Pot. The bullets came out seamless. I have done some where the nose would have partially hardened with similar results.

For hunting bullets I am going to try BrushBuster's method and pre cut my nose tips off of fishing lead rolls.

Take Care

Bob

[Nrut]

"Precut my nose tips off fishing lead rolls".......That's the best tip yet Bob.....

MJ...Hornady and I think Speer make lead balls for muzzle loaders and just plain ole shot of various sizes....If you don't have fishing lead on rolls where you live the balls would work...so would spit shot...when I was a kid I always would set the split shot on the line with my teeth....should have died of lead poisoning years ago...

[Marlin Junky]

The last time I was in Wal-Mart they had cheap electric hot plates that use a bare coil similar to the old electric range tops that were somewhat popular back in the 60's and 70's. Would something like this transfer enough heat to a SAECO 352 mold to the job? I'd like to be able to place a lead 311252 in the SAECO 352, set the mold on the hot plate, pour in the hard alloy, turn the hot plate up, wait for the spure to liquify and top the mold off with hard alloy. After I have a full mold sitting on the hot plate, turn the hot plate down so the boolit hardens and open the mold.

How's this sound? Is it worth buying a 311252 and another hot plate to try out this method? I've already got a Wally-World hot plate to warm molds but it's a more modern design that won't even approach 600F.

MJ

[robertbank]

It might but why not just dip your hot mold in the melt since you have the shank alloy melted already with the lead core in the mold. Wait a second or two and the core would be melted and you are good to go.

Take Care

Bob

[Marlin Junky]

The idea of the hot plate is to keep SAECO 352 level.

MJ

[robertbank]

I was concerned about that as well. I found that as long as I did my part in getting the mold level when I withdrew the mold from the melt and made sure when I poured the shank the mold was level I got a level seam. FWIW I also found I was having about a 30% rejection rate for various reasons.

Take Care

Bob

[Marlin Junky]

I think I'm going to go ahead and try this lil' experiment with SAECO 322 (nose section) and 352 and a new hot plate. I was afraid I'd create a nose heavy condition with 120+ grains of stick-on WW metal in the nose but what the heck... one never really knows 'til one gives it a go. I'm also going to use some real hard metal (stereotype or monotype I believe) in the shank area. First to the polls and then to Wally World!

MJ

P.S. I picked up one of those coil type hot plate/burners at Wally World this afternoon and plugged it in for testing just minutes ago. While it doesn't get orange hot like our electric range, it does surpass dark red. Should I turn it up all the way and set the mold directly on it or do I run the risk of damaging the mold at this temp?... which my guess would be over 1000F.

[blackthorn]

My concern with using a hot plate with a coil type burner would be the possibility of uneven heating of the mould. I dont know if this would be a problem but my idea would be to put a flat steel plate on top of the burner and place the mould on top of that, so that the heat was evenly distributed. Comments??

[robertbank]

Makes sense and the mold will get just as hot. What part of B.C. comes cclosest to mind?

Take Care

Bob

[Old Ironsights]

My concern with using a hot plate with a coil type burner would be the possibility of uneven heating of the mould. I dont know if this would be a problem but my idea would be to put a flat steel plate on top of the burner and place the mould on top of that, so that the heat was evenly distributed. Comments??

I do that. Just find an old, dull, high-carbon radial saw balde of appropriate diameter.

More stable surface too.

[blackthorn]

robertbank

Kamloops....used to be in South Surrey till I attempted to retire two years ago. Got invited to work 'part time' (yeah right) from home. Next March /07 will be it for sure!!

[robertbank]

Well the way I got it figured next trip south I got three stops for coffee. Kamloops is a very nice town. Could be my next and final stop, if I get tired of the fishing up here. PM sent.

Take Care

Bob

[McMullen759]

I know I'm reviving a long dead thread here but I've been contemplating this a while now and haven't found anything on it.
Has anyone experimented with the reverse of this idea (soft base/hard nose)? My thinking is the effect on target should be similar while optimizing bullet longevity for loading/working through tube mags for lever actions.

The hard nose should resist dings and scrapes and such going in through the loading gate as well as when being fed into the chamber, keeping concentricity/deformation/drag forces, etc... from throwing out accuracy, especially in boolits which get loaded/unloaded multiple times as often occurs when hunting going into/out of the woods. Sort of like a cast equivalent to the old school winchester silvertips. They held up much better than typical soft points with that kind of treatment and were absolutely devastating on game (at least the 170gr 30-30 ones), I suspect due to the same swaging effect I've described (though it's possible they had an internal cone of some sort to force this expansion... I'd love to dissect one to see).

My thought is as long as the hard part section is back enough to be into the first driving band (or 2 on longer designs with more than 2 or 3 bands), this should allow good grip to the rifling to allow for high velocities, base would obturate well for gas sealing and at impact the hard nose should want to swage back into the softer base, upsetting it into a larger diameter while the front "point" aids penetration. In theory such a bullet should hold up extremely well too as the nose can't overexpand and shear away from the body.

If anyone has done something like this I would be very excited to see results. I feel the theory is sound but of course it's hard to know what will happen under real world conditions. If not I will definitely try this and see what I can figure out, though it's always nice to have a start point or even some insights on aspects I may have overlooked.

[StrawHat]

I believe target shooters of old used to cast a soft base (to slug up to bore dimensions) with a nard nose to resist deformation.

I may have read that in Muzle Blasts or the Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle.

Kevin

[firefly1957]

Sounds like bullets for a slug gun match they had very specific rules on how the bullet could be patched and loaded the base was soft lead the bullet hard alloy and the two were swaged together in a "pound Die" . A die that was hammered to swage bullets into one piece.
I only new one guy that shot in those matches at Friendship My memory recalls a .56 caliber slug weighing 1600 grains beine propelled by 200+ grains of Black powder to 800 f/s . Paper patches were laid in a X pattern on a false muzzle and the bullet pushed in with just hand pressure .