Wad Stack for Black Powder PPB

[1885_Highwall]

I see a lot of people posting that they use a veggie wad (compress) and then follow with an LDPE wad and finally a felt wad. Is this a fairly well proven combination? And are there any theories as to why this works so well? On a related note, have grease cookies fallen out of favor?

[Chill Wills]

Unless you are taking up room on a really long brass case, I am not sure you would need that. On regular cases like 45-70, 38-55 40-60 Maynard, 40-65 or 40-70 Sharps, Just the normal 0.060" or so (0.030", 0.090") wads work well and hold all the shooting records for accuracy. There is always the exception to solve a special problem but ..... try the regular way first.

[country gent]

I normally run a .060 rubber fiber gasket wad to compress with then 2 typing paper wads. on some loads there is a grease cookie between the rubber fiber and the typing paper.

Watch the paper patch and make sure its coming off at the muzzle not hanging on. You should see the first wrap come of in confetti then the second wrap and base intact some light color but not burnt or destryed.

[Don McDowell]

Depends a lot on the bullet, case length and powder charge. With parrallell sided bullets wrapped to bore I use a thin wad punched from the NAPA rubber cork and a dry lubed felt wad from Muzzleloader originals.
Dual diameter bullets I'm finding just a single thick wad works reasonably well.
Grease cookies usually only find their way into hunting loads. I only know of 1 person that uses a grease cooky in match loads, but that is in a tight chambered 45-110.

[Lead pot]

The only time I load more the a .04" or .06" fiber wad is for a hunting load then I use a 1/8" lube wad with a PP slightly patched under bore diameter so I can load in a fouled chamber. Accuracy is still good for that use.
Some shooters with the large calibers use an exotic wad stack but I think they use them to reduce the recoil and this is fine. Accurate loads can be worked up doing this also.
High wall, the best thing for you is load rounds with what ever wad stack and put holes through paper till you find what works best for you.
There is no short cut. What works for one of us might not work for you. And even when I find a super fine load might not shoot as well the next day I shoot.
Time behind the buttplate is a plus learning the rifle and what works.
Kurt

[Don McDowell]

There are a ton of ways to skin a cat with wad stacks and paper patch.Paper weight , bullet diameter, length and alloy all play a big part as well But in the end it boils down to what your rifle and the target tell you.
None of them will work worth a flip unless you are using a very good fouling control.

[Brimstone]

Isn't that Kenny's preferred wad stack?

[Don McDowell]

Kenny does use a pile of stuff in his 110

[Gunlaker]

For the smaller cases, a stack of wads will not let the bullet bump up. The 45-90 is the smallest case I've had Kenny's wad stack work in. It is good in the 45-100 & 45-110 cases.

For cases that hold less powder, a single 0.060" LDPE is going to give you good results. The paper on the ground will tell you a fair bit about how your wad(s) are working.

For small cases like the 38-55, even less wad is better. I use 0.030" LDPE there.

Chris.

[Gobeyond]

It sounds like you are not using a lube cookie, but cjeaning after every shot. I’m trying a lube cookie next. Have them loaded. It would be nice to have some bullet lube if not fouling softener also. But you make it sound not necessary. Interesting. More room for powder. A good fouling clean up………. Trial one coming soon.

[45-110]

DD pp bullets are less prone to gas cutting than the wrapped bore diameter choice with wrong wad(s). Alloy plays a role here also. Recovered bullets can tell you alot. I shoot DD in 3 calibers, one .06" wad in the .45-50 cal. and one .03" in the 40's.

[JosieGun]

For my .45-70s I fill up the fire formed case to its rim with weighed Swiss 1-1/2F, push in a 060" LDPE wad, compress down .1", place in the loose PPB, then a light taper crimp to just keep the PPB from falling out yet it can be removed and replaced back in the brass.

[Gobeyond]

I used a wax wad over powder and a paper wad over lube under bullet. Seemed to clean really well and no dry areas. Not bad groups from 2”-4” at 100 yds. Used my regular load. Patched to bore with a .442 HBbullet. Baco 9 pound onion skin.
Mineral oil, microcrystalline wax lube. Soft but not leaky. Didn’t see the paper though, couldn’t find it either. I should have had a 1/8 felt for cusushion.

How do you wrap a DD bullet. The base to bore and wrap the middle I’m guessing.

Fishing, fishing, fishing.

[Good Cheer]

Shooting muzzleloaders I like card wads and bullets patched up almost to bore diameter.

[Gobeyond]

Shooting muzzleloaders I like card wads and bullets patched up almost to bore diameter.

That sounds like a good combination senior grand bullet master. I have a lot of questions for you. Hmfh.

[JosieGun]

For reduced .45-70 BP PPB bore rider loads I consider how much BP I want to load and then test with whatever number of stacked wads (of whatever thickness) are required, with what amount of desired compression of both powder and wads, that will allow a final compressed powder/wad stack that's .100" to.125" below the case rim. This may mean that multiple wads will require separate powder/wad compression, so that the last wad is pushed in to sit level with the case mouth and will then get compressed down below the rim.

[Gobeyond]

So, I’m thinking that the paper wad could be replaced by a wool wad for cushion. It probably sticks to the bullet any way. I reading a book about PPB and everything has to be just perfect. So I don’t know how far I’ll go. But I think .442 is a little small. My bore is .4505 but the combination with paper didn’t slice the paper that I could see.. it sure slid into the rifling, bit I must have had 3/8s in the case.

[JosieGun]

So, I’m thinking that the paper wad could be replaced by a wool wad for cushion. It probably sticks to the bullet any way. I reading a book about PPB and everything has to be just perfect. So I don’t know how far I’ll go. But I think .442 is a little small. My bore is .4505 but the combination with paper didn’t slice the paper that I could see.. it sure slid into the rifling, bit I must have had 3/8s in the case.

I want solid hard wads, not soft wads that will compress themselves. I want the final patched slick to have its paper kiss the lands for a hand-in-glove fit. Yeah, it takes some experimenting with slick diameter and paper thickness, but once consistently achieved the rest is up to eyes and trigger finger.

[Gobeyond]

I want solid hard wads, not soft wads that will compress themselves. I want the final patched slick to have its paper kiss the lands for a hand-in-glove fit. Yeah, it takes some experimenting with slick diameter and paper thickness, but once consistently achieved the rest is up to eyes and trigger finger.

Are you a competitor @JosieGun ? I was wondering if you have achieved that near perfection. When handling such small stuff I get a lttlestiff. Hard to concentrate. I’m meticulous about mopping floors and cleaning restaurant, but…. One guy showed me that the wad should break up and allow a spray of lube to go through to barrel walls. I can see what you’re saying though compress powder, compress wads, and have barely enough to crimp in bullet with said load. So it really doesn’t take up that much space. But I’m working on thin beeswax wad for my purposes. Paper on top worked. But now to tighten my 4 inch groups, that I can live with. Just trying that bit of perfection to achieve my goals. Over powder, over lube, under bullet. Have I got that right- a wad stack.

[JosieGun]

No longer a competitor, but that shouldn't stifle the quest for accuracy and minimum group size.

No lube in my wads, I don't go that route. I'll swab between shots fired.

Grease cookies just take up space that's better used by added powder in most instances (other than reduced powder/power loads).