Shotgun powders??

[Texas by God]

Buying & selling talk belongs in S&S guys.
I have a skeet shooting friend keeping an eyeball open for Red Dot for me.


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[Kylongrifle]

Im very low on Blue Dot, about 2 pounds. I use it in 20ga 1oz loads, 16 and 12 ga... I've tried and tried to find some but its just non existent in my rural area.. I drove an hour for the last pound I bought... I'm currently trying to transition a lot of my loads to Longshot because its easy to get. Save my precious blue dot as long as I can.. I also use WSF and 572 which are easier to get right now. both good powders.. WSF is a good powder for heavy field loads and slug loads

[fastdadio]

Im very low on Blue Dot, about 2 pounds. I use it in 20ga 1oz loads, 16 and 12 ga... I've tried and tried to find some but its just non existent in my rural area.. I drove an hour for the last pound I bought... I'm currently trying to transition a lot of my loads to Longshot because its easy to get. Save my precious blue dot as long as I can.. I also use WSF and 572 which are easier to get right now. both good powders.. WSF is a good powder for heavy field loads and slug loads

Longshot is a good powder to have on the bench. I load mostly 7/8oz 20ga. lt does well for this, also does well for me in .44, .357. and 45acp. which I shoot a lot of. Nothing wrong with having a good versatile powder that fills several loads across the bench.

[Vettepilot]

Longshot is available. It is near to the burn rate of Blue Dot I believe. I find it "friendly" to use, and good for slugs, which I love!!

Vettepilot

[rbuck351]

I'll be 76 in a couple of months and I started loading for shotgun when my dad bought me a lee whack-a-mole loader for my 14th birthday. Along with the loader was a Speer loading manual and some components. This must have been about the same time as the beginning of the plastic wads as they are barely mentioned in the manual. The only data was amount and type of powder, the wad column height, amount of shot, wad pressure and whether it has a high or low inner base wad. There is one mention of the "new" plastic wads and it says to reduce powder by 10%. When and where did all this stuff about only using the exact components listed in newer books start?

So, I have been loading shot shells for about 60 years without worrying about primer, case or wad brand except for column height without issues. I use more current manuals for powder type and shot weight and use whatever case works to have the shot at the proper height for a good crimp. I have only used two 12ga shotguns since I started. First was a M10 Rem which I used for 10 or 12 years then an 870 wingmaster which I still use. Neither has shown any signs of abuse from an over load.

[Bronco72]

I have a good supply of WST. Bought it when I was playing around in trap and skeet. Then when I could not find any Bullseye for some pistol loads I checked the burn charts and cautiously found that WST is almost a 1 to 1 equivalent to Bullseye. Also notice that it burned cleaner . Great for 38 spl., 45acp, cowboy loads in 44 mag cases.
I know the current supply situation hurts but I recommend when you find what you have been looking for BUY big. The situation will only get worse and more expensive

[barnetmill]

I have a good supply of WST. Bought it when I was playing around in trap and skeet. Then when I could not find any Bullseye for some pistol loads I checked the burn charts and cautiously found that WST is almost a 1 to 1 equivalent to Bullseye. Also notice that it burned cleaner . Great for 38 spl., 45acp, cowboy loads in 44 mag cases.
I know the current supply situation hurts but I recommend when you find what you have been looking for BUY big. The situation will only get worse and more expensive

From https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-conte...teschart-1.pdf

Part of the hodgdon burn chart. Bullseye is faster than is WST powder. WST is closer to green dot.

[Vettepilot]

I'll be 76 in a couple of months and I started loading for shotgun when my dad bought me a lee whack-a-mole loader for my 14th birthday. Along with the loader was a Speer loading manual and some components. This must have been about the same time as the beginning of the plastic wads as they are barely mentioned in the manual. The only data was amount and type of powder, the wad column height, amount of shot, wad pressure and whether it has a high or low inner base wad. There is one mention of the "new" plastic wads and it says to reduce powder by 10%. When and where did all this stuff about only using the exact components listed in newer books start?

So, I have been loading shot shells for about 60 years without worrying about primer, case or wad brand except for column height without issues. I use more current manuals for powder type and shot weight and use whatever case works to have the shot at the proper height for a good crimp. I have only used two 12ga shotguns since I started. First was a M10 Rem which I used for 10 or 12 years then an 870 wingmaster which I still use. Neither has shown any signs of abuse from an over load.

I don't know the answer, but yeah, it is a pain to strictly stick to the load data with no subs.

One thing though. There is a functional difference with the hulls, particularly between the one piece molded hulls, and the thinner multi-piece hulls, often called "Euro-trash Hulls." If you use a wad made for the thick walled molded hulls in the thin, multi-piece hulls, you can get powder migration past the wad, plus possible lowered pressure and/or bloopers due to the loose wad fit. Going the other way, with multi-piece thin-walled hull type wads in thick-walled one piece molded hulls, the wad fit can be too tight to seat properly or consistently.

In other words, there is an important diameter difference in wads, depending on which style/type hull they are designed to use.

Vettepilot

[Bronco72]

Barnetmill;

I did not say they were an exact copy but performance when dealing with 3.5 grs in one to 5.5 grs in another is equal to what Bullseye would produce. I had been shooting Bullseye for 30 years or more and could not find any to purchase when I need some. I had a large stock of WST already so hence comparing these two. The difference on the chart is 8 positions out of 175. Not being in a lab to quantify the difference. I would consider them a 1 to 1 exchange in my garage for my purpose. I did say I cautiously reached my conclusion

[barnetmill]

Barnetmill;

I did not say they were an exact copy but performance when dealing with 3.5 grs in one to 5.5 grs in another is equal to what Bullseye would produce. I had been shooting Bullseye for 30 years or more and could not find any to purchase when I need some. I had a large stock of WST already so hence comparing these two. The difference on the chart is 8 positions out of 175. Not being in a lab to quantify the difference. I would consider them a 1 to 1 exchange in my garage for my purpose. I did say I cautiously reached my conclusion

My interest is for reloading 40 S&W practice loads and thought there was some difference from which when I was a lot younger bullseye was considered a very fast powder, but I see there are now some that are even faster burning. I do have some WST powder also.
Relative to safety I strongly suspect the many shotgun can tolerate much higher pressure that what the reloading manuals call for. I suspect that there is not real danger if for some reason your loads do run a little hotter. As long as the patterns are good, go full ahead.

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, I don't think shotgun reloading is quite as critical as they want us to believe either.

I think it's likely due to two things. One, shotshells don't TELL you when they are approaching "pressure" like metallics do. Two, at some point somebody important actually must have blown up a gun unexpectedly. So now we are all warned to stick precisely to data out of an "abundance of caution." Then of course, there's the absolute obsession with pure and total safety that is in vogue now. You really should not leave the house...

I am still thinking there ought to be a way to measure shotshell pressure without having to send loads in, and without an 800$ PressureTrace.

Vettepilot

[longbow]

I am still thinking there ought to be a way to measure shotshell pressure without having to send loads in, and without an 800$ PressureTrace.

Vettepilot

I have wondered if something like the Plastigauges used for checking journal bearing clearance might work. My thought was to use a Plastigauge just ahead of the metallic cartridge head where it should fit into the chamber. Mic before and mic after shooting. Of course it would take a bunch of shooting to establish how much pressure it takes to cause a specific squish of the Plastigauge.

Just kinda thinking out loud.

Best to get a pressure trace system and some calibration rounds.

Longbow

[Barry54]

I have wondered if something like the Plastigauges used for checking journal bearing clearance might work. My thought was to use a Plastigauge just ahead of the metallic cartridge head where it should fit into the chamber. Mic before and mic after shooting. Of course it would take a bunch of shooting to establish how much pressure it takes to cause a specific squish of the Plastigauge.

Just kinda thinking out loud.

Best to get a pressure trace system and some calibration rounds.

Longbow

If you are getting out a micrometer, there’s information from hodgdon powder talking about measuring case head expansion as an indicator of pressure.

[barnetmill]

If you are getting out a micrometer, there’s information from hodgdon powder talking about measuring case head expansion as an indicator of pressure.

Is this for shotgun hulls or center fire rifle and pistol brass cartridges?

[elmacgyver0]

Oh yeah. That's the most aggravating thing about loading for shotgun!!

"Ok, that load looks good----> nope, don't have that primer." "Ah, there's another one---> nope, don't have that frickin' wad." Etc., etc., etc. And then we are told to do exact loads only; no substitutions. That's why I have 27 darn loading manuals!! Man how I wish there was an economical way to test shotshell pressure!!!

Vettepilot

I forgot who it was, but someone here claimed to design and build his own chronograph and said it was more accurate than the new Garmin.
I bet he could build a pressure tester using a strain gauge that would tell you what you need to know.
There may be units available, there was a company that did produce them, but I think they went out of business, probably overpriced themselves out of business.

[longbow]

To my knowledge, limited as it is, measuring shotgun hull head expansion is not reliable due to inconsistencies in the hulls. I suspecy it would take very consistent case head material strength and thickness tolerances to provide meaningful results when you are talking thousandths of an inch.

Having said that it would be interesting to take some factory loads, so new hulls and supposedly consistent loads, and measure several heads before and after shooting to see how consistent the expansion is.

Ajay Madan (Superblazingsabots) said that Fiocchi hulls have "softer" or weaker heads than most other hulls so were a good indicator of pressure with expansion or sticky extraction. My understanding is that if you are getting sticky extraction you are well over acceptable pressures.

I think the issue is really that you need things to be very precise and consistent to get meaniful results. A pressure trace system is all of that.

Longbow

[Vettepilot]

It is just that the price of PressureTrace is positively LUDICROUS!! I don't mind spending money on this hobby, and have lots of cool tools and supplies. A while back when I really had "the fever" about this, I was actually trying to talk myself into it. Then the price went from 500ish to 800!! That's nuts!!

Even if I were rich, I don't think my sense of right and wrong would allow the purchase of 10 bucks worth of electronics in a nice box, for 800 bucks!! It's just immoral...

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Just for grins, I looked up PressureTrace just now to check 2024 price.

As it turns out, they went out of business last year...

Vettepilot

[Barry54]

Just for grins, I looked up PressureTrace just now to check 2024 price.

As it turns out, they went out of business last year...

Vettepilot

I was wondering why, with the money focused internet search engines, I couldn’t find where to purchase one. What’s our next option?