Isit worth Powder Coating apart from purely cosmetic reasons?

[fredj338]

For a long time Lee molds were designed to drop a CWW alloy bullet ready to load. I did that exact thing with my .45's and .357. Cast, pan lube and load. Didn't own a lubesizer or size dies until I started loading for a rifle many years later.

That just has never been really true. Final as cast size will vary with alloy & casting temp. Sure, use the exact alloy & exact temp, you might get the a bullet that drops the preferred size but not likely. I never saw where Lee molds were regulated with CWW. Most manf use Lyman #2 because its repeatable.
Did you ever actually measure the final bullets? Yes you can certainly get by not sizing, but like everything else in life, it Worls until it doesn't. I size because I load in mixed brass & a fat bullet & thicker case is going to cause an issue. If they are all the same size & there is a problem, I know its the case. One reason I now segregate all my 9mm brass. Thickness is just all over the place & with longer 147gr bullets, I need certain headstamps to make reliable ammo.

[Finster101]

Since I enjoy all aspects of handloading and shooting, powder coating is just part of the process.

[charlie b]

Yep, we did measure them. .452 and .358 as cast.

I hate loading cast for my 9mm so I just buy plated bullets for it.

[jdgabbard]

Yep, we did measure them. .452 and .358 as cast.

I hate loading cast for my 9mm so I just buy plated bullets for it.

You might check out Mihec's 125gr 9mm bullet, or the 147gr. They're NICE. I used to load plated or FMJ mostly with 9mm. But since I bought these molds it's pretty much what I stick with now.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...av-bevel-base/

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/9mm...aluminum-mold/

[jsizemore]

I can shorten your time, dont bake for 30min, no real point, 15min in a preheated oven is plenty.

In my oven with PID control I had bullets get sticky in the Star sizing die even up to 20 minutes bake time with the oven preheated. I had to use a lanolin based lube for them to slide through. I increased my bake time to 30 minutes after the oven hits 375degF on the digital readout of the PID. No lube and the PC'd bullets slide right through. Smoke's powder. Thanks for the suggestion. I do what works for me.

[fredj338]

Yep, we did measure them. .452 and .358 as cast.

I hate loading cast for my 9mm so I just buy plated bullets for it.

Not saying it isnt true but unless you use identical alloy & temps, your bullets will vary in size. You would have to measure dozens each time you cast, not a couple each.

[fredj338]

In my oven with PID control I had bullets get sticky in the Star sizing die even up to 20 minutes bake time with the oven preheated. I had to use a lanolin based lube for them to slide through. I increased my bake time to 30 minutes after the oven hits 375degF on the digital readout of the PID. No lube and the PC'd bullets slide right through. Smoke's powder. Thanks for the suggestion. I do what works for me.

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

[kevin c]

You might check out Mihec's 125gr 9mm bullet, or the 147gr. They're NICE. I used to load plated or FMJ mostly with 9mm. But since I bought these molds it's pretty much what I stick with now.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...av-bevel-base/

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/9mm...aluminum-mold/

I can also vouch for these designs and molds. The 147, especially, is the go to for me and a friend for the Action Pistol sports.

[jdgabbard]

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

It's because the boolits a "slick" from the PC. You just have to feel it to understand. It's like they're slippery and slide through faster with less friction. Sounds weird, I know. But PC boolits do in fact size easier - at least perceive to size easier...

[jsizemore]

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

I only air cool everything I cast or after baking. I size as soon as they're cool enough to handle after baking. I tried waiting 1 hour and at 2 hours. PC'ed bullets were still a bit sticky going through the die. Some folks were having the same problem and posted they increased bake time to 30 minutes. I thought why not cuz I'm tired of the lubing. First time after 30 minute cook time they sized without lubing after cool to the touch. Sized portion of the bullets look polished and slide through the die like butter. Tried sizing after waiting an hour and there was a little resistance but no slowing of the handle stroke on the star.

I bake @ 800 bullets at a time. After loading the convection oven I wait for it to recover to 375degF before I start the 30 minute bake time just like I used to at 15 and 20 minute bake times.

At one time I thought I might have to too much powder on the bullets. I shook them in the mesh baskets till there was a light coating and still had sticking at less then 30 minute bake time. Tried different relative humidity days. Same deal. Same results regardless of the ambient temps.

All I can say is "30 minutes is my bake time". Good time to rest up between the 1.5-2 hour casting session and the hour to size them.

[charlie b]

Not saying it isnt true but unless you use identical alloy & temps, your bullets will vary in size. You would have to measure dozens each time you cast, not a couple each.

We measured a few hundred of them before we got tired of it. Then we just lubed and shot them. Worked great, even for my father-in-law who was a Navy bullseye shooter.

[charlie b]

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

Baking them past the mfgs minimum makes for a fully cured coating that has a lower friction. The one time I tried shortcutting the baking process I got bullets that needed more force to size.

It is not that big a deal to use the powder the way the mfg intended.

[fredj338]

It's because the boolits a "slick" from the PC. You just have to feel it to understand. It's like they're slippery and slide through faster with less friction. Sounds weird, I know. But PC boolits do in fact size easier - at least perceive to size easier...

I PC, fully understand the process. I question how baking 30min makes them easier to size, unless they are air cooled & softening the alloy.

[fredj338]

Baking them past the mfgs minimum makes for a fully cured coating that has a lower friction. The one time I tried shortcutting the baking process I got bullets that needed more force to size.

It is not that big a deal to use the powder the way the mfg intended.

So its specific to a given powder, ok. I still think its changing the alloy. The baking time element isnt really an issue, you can be doing other things.

[jdgabbard]

So its specific yo a given powder, ok. I still think its changing the alloy. The baking time element isnt really an issue, you can be doing other things.

I water drop out of the oven. So even heat treated they are butter smooth going through the sizer. I don't think it's an alloy thing, but a PC thing. Everything sizes smoother PC'd (at least if it's fully cured - I've always been of the opinion you can't over cure PC, as I used to do it professionally).

[charlie b]

So its specific yo a given powder, ok. I still think its changing the alloy. The baking time element isnt really an issue, you can be doing other things.

You can't change the alloy. You can change the hardness of the alloy if you heat treat. You can increase the hardness of most alloys if you water cool from the oven. I air cool so there is no change in hardness from casting to final PC bullet. Basically, if you air cool after casting and PC then you have a fully annealed bullet that will have hardness based on the specific alloy. I use Lyman #2 so that means 16-18bhn.

FWIW, to fully heat treat most lead alloys it takes about 40min at the hardening temperature. If you water drop from a PC oven after 20 min the bullets will not be 'fully' hardened.

[fredj338]

I water drop out of the oven. So even heat treated they are butter smooth going through the sizer. I don't think it's an alloy thing, but a PC thing. Everything sizes smoother PC'd (at least if it's fully cured - I've always been of the opinion you can't over cure PC, as I used to do it professionally).

You are not reading the post i replied to. Yes pc doesnt need lube to size. The question is baking time& sizing.

[jsizemore]

I coat and bake 14-14.5 lbs of bullets at a time. I'm using an Oster countertop convection oven whose total wattage is 1500 watts. I'm like most ovens and folks, I monitor the air temp in the oven. Could be the total mass I'm trying to heat requires a longer time to get up to temp to cure completely. Kinda like the extra time to bake a 5lb turkey or 3 5lb turkeys at one time in the same oven.

[Oldfeller]

Looping on back to the original purpose of this thread, almost all of us now agree that if you are starting out fresh you are better served by following the PC path from the very beginning as:

1) general results are better all around
2) the total learning curve is not as steep as PC simply ignores a lot of early caster issues
3) startup cost outlay in the required equipment is far far less
4) the bullets are prettier with all the minor casting flaws "covered" and sized all "nice and shiny and round"
5) lead poisoning concerns in handling are greatly reduced, especially later on when the plain lead bullets get oxidized in storage
6) you have not invested time and tooling $$$ in the now obsoleted greased lead technology nor the sloppy messy liquid alox LEE system. Both systems now trail off into obsolescence where they belong.

[murf205]

I've kitted myself out with the gear to powder coat boolits but I'm starting to wonder if I've done the right thing.
I've seen a fistfull of youtubes where PC loads were tested alongside identical loads except that the latter were plain lubed (in most cases it was with Lees liquid alox) and the PC loads were always significantly down on velocity and showed no improvement in accuracy.
I wanted to PC my boolits in 30 cal and 357 formy three carbines and tbh I'm having serious second thoughts.
Can anyone convince me that these youtubes were bs or why they aren't bs and liqid alox is the way to go.

braddock, I can't tell you whether the you tube videos are BS or not because I have not seen them, but I can tell you that in my experience, pc'd boolits feed in lever guns and semi autos where lubed ones did not. The super slick coating glides up feed ramps and IMHO, eliminates friction in that area. Plus, it lets me use a softer casting mix without leading where the fit may be questionable. I don't mean to imply that boolit diameter fit can be discounted but pc'ing sure has cured a lot of problems for a lot of people. I use both methods so I am really not biased one way or the other, but I will tell you that I had my share of 9mm feeding problems but not since I started powder coating for those guns. If you use the "shake and bake" method, a 2nd hand toaster oven, a decent thermometer, and some of Smoke4320's powder, you can get in the game pretty reasonably. Good luck with your decision. Here is a pic of a 38S&W round that I pc'd for gun with a .360 groove diameter. The boolit dropped a mite small from the regular 38/357 mold so O coated it and picked up .001 and I shoots like a dream.