I had a case head separation today.

[dtknowles]

I was shooting my Remington Rolling Block #4 in .32 RF and the second shot with a cartridge powered with a #3 Dewalt Green Powder Load had a head separation. I had fired three rounds with round balls, acorn blanks and black powder and then one with the Powder Load and a 86 gr. outside lubed bullet. Then I fired the offending round, ending the shooting for the day as I did not have the tools to remove the stuck case body.
I have never had a head separation with a straight walled case. I am pretty sure this is a case I bought not one I made but the ones I make are much like the ones I bought anyway. I don't know how many times I have fired this case but can't be a lot only half a dozen at most. It was a pain getting the brass out of the chamber, usual easy solutions did not work.
Tim

[Bazoo]

Sorry to hear about this. From the sounds of it, there wasn't any injury to shoot or rifle? How did you end up getting the case out?

[dtknowles]

No, nobody or anything go hurt. I have had other case head separations with no adverse effects. It is not like the gun blows up just when you open the action only the case head is extracted. I did feel a puff of gas on my cheek, but I get that with the black powder loads too even without a head separation. I get blow by; cases are covered with fowling.

To remove the case remnant, I hit it with a bit of Kroil and let it set a bit then the first try was a tight-fitting brass brush trick that worked in the past with no luck. Next, I tried pounding a slug down the barrel, no luck. Then I tried turning a drill bit into the case (I think I was lucky that I had one handy that was just the right size) from the breach side, but I did not have a way to get a good strong pull on it. I tried to pound it out with the rod I used to slug the barrel, but it just unwound, so I put it in again the (drill bit) and held it was pliers to keep it from turning and pounded it out with the rod. That required a bit of gymnastics, but it worked.
Tim

[John Taylor]

Head separations usually are caused by to much headspace or old brittle brass. Easiest way to get them out is pore a chamber cast and push it out with a cleaning rod.I had a brass rupture on an 1876 and it blew the side covers off, that was scary.

[marlinman93]

Sounds like maybe you need to anneal those cases every so often to avoid case separations.

[racepres]

Head separations usually are caused by to much headspace or old brittle brass. Easiest way to get them out is pore a chamber cast and push it out with a cleaning rod.I had a brass rupture on an 1876 and it blew the side covers off, that was scary.

Only If you full length resize... If you leave the case Dimensioned to the Chamber...all is Good
For removal... a Good ole Machine Screw Tap...if you have correct size is a Good Method!! Once threaded either rod tap and all out...or If concerned that the tap is Brittle and will break, Thread in a Screw, and Pound that !!

[marlinman93]

Most, if not all of these adapter cases that use blanks or other ignition systems to fire in RF rifles are lathe turned brass. Lathe turned brass is not the same as formed brass, so it needs annealing.
But beyond the issues of lathe turned brass the vast majority of these cases are straight walled, so fire forming doesn't change headspace issues like it does with any of the bottleneck cartridges. So you can fire them all you want and they could still have headspace issues if headspace is an issue.

[kootne]

A #3 Dewalt blank in the 32RF's I have shot will send 85-95 gr. bullets above the sound barrier. You can hear them crack. I only will shoot them in my #1-1/2 Remington anymore. That velocity is coming from pressure. The pressure might be at the edge of what your #4 can handle. Try using #2 loads. I have shot hundreds of them through my 1894 Stevens Favorite which I don't think is even as strong as a #4 Remington. Some of my cases have 50 or more shots out of them. I do make those cases so they have an ID equal to the heel and an OD -.001 to -.0015 of the front of the chamber. I don't size except when cases start to stick. The heel bullets will stay in good enough for light handling, meaning you can usually pull them out with fingers but otherwise they stay.
Regarding those Level #3 loads, my personal rule of thumb is; only shoot them in guns that were originally made to handle .32/20 or bigger.
Another consideration is many of those old "boys" rifles barrels are slip fit takedowns with a big set screw. If things are worn and not tight the hotter loads will have another excuse to cause you some grief.
The cases I have the best luck with are based on 32 long Colt, formed from 32 S&W Long. My experience with turning cases from bar stock (1/2 Hard Brass) is they don't last nearly as long.

[Delkal]

Most, if not all of these adapter cases that use blanks or other ignition systems to fire in RF rifles are lathe turned brass. Lathe turned brass is not the same as formed brass, so it needs annealing.
But beyond the issues of lathe turned brass the vast majority of these cases are straight walled, so fire forming doesn't change headspace issues like it does with any of the bottleneck cartridges. So you can fire them all you want and they could still have headspace issues if headspace is an issue.

The problem is you should only anneal the top 1/4 to 1/3 of the case and that is not where case head separations happen. When annealingh you don't want to soften the base and should still be able to hold the rear of the case with your fingers before you plunge it in water. Most case head separations are not that dangerous since the cartridge base is still sealed in the chamber preventing the gasses from venting. But if you anneal the base and make it too soft it can fail with disastrous consequences.

[marlinman93]

The problem is you should only anneal the top 1/4 to 1/3 of the case and that is not where case head separations happen. When annealingh you don't want to soften the base and should still be able to hold the rear of the case with your fingers before you plunge it in water. Most case head separations are not that dangerous since the cartridge base is still sealed in the chamber preventing the gasses from venting. But if you anneal the base and make it too soft it can fail with disastrous consequences.

It's fine to only anneal 1/4-1/3 of a longer rifle case. But annealing shorter cases and only doing that far, or not getting your fingers burnt is impossible unless you sit the cases in water and anneal above the water line.
I've seen a lot of cases separate not far above the rim, and usually about 3/8" or so. But I've also seen them separate halfway up also. My point is that lathe turned cases are brittle, and can separate or split if not annealed. And straight walled cases can't be fire formed to adjust headspace. Bottleneck cases can easily be fire formed and fix small headspace issues by not full length sizing after fire forming. But not a straight wall rimmed case.

[dtknowles]

I don't think annealing will help. I think I know what is the problem. The case head diameter is too small for this chamber. The case separated in the region where the solid head transitions (quite abruptly) to the thin side walls. In the picture is the separated head and the round I fired right before the one that separated. The case is expanded to the chamber diameter everywhere except the head.



I don't think the gun is too week for the #3 powder loads and I don't think it has a headspace problem. It is not the takedown version of the #4. I have fired #3's in all my .32 rf guns without problems. I am going to stick to acorn blanks and black powder with round balls in this gun until I make a batch of better fitting brass.

Tim

[Delkal]

Since it is a rimmed straight walled case and splitting there it is not a headspace problem since the cartrige is headspaced on the rim. I agree that the base looks like it is cut smaller than your chamber so there is only so much you can do about that. I would just partially size the top of the case so you can just seat the bullet and leave the rest unsized to stop working the brass. You only need to fireform it once and only resize if the cases won't chamber.

One other tip to figure out when to retire brass is to get a flashlight and look inside the case. From your pic you can see a ring on the outside but you should also be able to see a bigger darker ring on the inside that is much deeper and much more obvious.

This tip also works for rifle cartridges. The common advice to scratch around to detect a thinner spot with a bent paper clip is a joke. Look in the case and you can tell in a second. If you see a distinct black ring toss the brass

[uscra112]

It looks to me that the case where it is expanded to chamber size is a lot bigger than the base. I think your adaptors are machined too small, as you said.

Quite a few of the .32 RF adaptors being sold are reformed .32 S&W brass. If this is not done correctly the cases will have a thin ring right about where yours separated. Take another one and section it. (I use a belt sander.) This will tell the tale.

[John Taylor]

Most, if not all of these adapter cases that use blanks or other ignition systems to fire in RF rifles are lathe turned brass. Lathe turned brass is not the same as formed brass, so it needs annealing.
But beyond the issues of lathe turned brass the vast majority of these cases are straight walled, so fire forming doesn't change headspace issues like it does with any of the bottleneck cartridges. So you can fire them all you want and they could still have headspace issues if headspace is an issue.

Thanks, that's what I was referring to, a case with a rim and strait wall. The 50 BMG that separated was a factory round made in 1951 and the brass had become brittle from age. Headspace can be a big problem in older guns. I had a Win. 94 in 30-30 come in that had .025" headspace. With factory ammo the primmer backed out that amount. Seem strange that the brass did not stretch but did cling to the chamber walls. Someplace above 42,000 psi the brass will stretch with most cartridges. Most of the time you can see a bright spot about 1/4" in front of the base where the brass has stretched.
On the #4 Remington, I have converted several to centerfire chambered for the 32 S&W. Sense most of these rifles have a bad bore they get a liner so they will shoot again. I prefer the solid frame for this conversion.