My homemade black powder

[2TM101]

I suppose the natural question is, why isn't everyone using golden powder? Other than the hygroscopic component, it sounds like the next great discovery that nobody knows about.

Main reason I can think of is that there is no effective dry method of preparing it. Some people, myself included, may be hesitant to cook gunpowder on a stove. I never tried the "CIA Method" for that reason. However if "Mix powder, ball mill for half a day, then use a heavy hydraulic press to make pucks" is replaced by "blend two components for about ten minutes and let it dry" I can see a reason to do it. With the added benefit of using petroleum based bullet lube as there is no Sulfur in the mix.

I did some research into this and there is a tanged web of patent violations and lawsuits regarding this stuff. Also a lot of formulas for fireworks use adding additional components such as Iron Oxide in a 12-8-1 mix, but find no example of that being used in a gun.

Lastly, the KNO3 is the largest component of Black, Golden or Crimson powder, and thats Hygroscopic, so you are dealing with that anyway.

[HWooldridge]

Main reason I can think of is that there is no effective dry method of preparing it. Some people, myself included, may be hesitant to cook gunpowder on a stove. I never tried the "CIA Method" for that reason. However if "Mix powder, ball mill for half a day, then use a heavy hydraulic press to make pucks" is replaced by "blend two components for about ten minutes and let it dry" I can see a reason to do it. With the added benefit of using petroleum based bullet lube as there is no Sulfur in the mix.

I did some research into this and there is a tanged web of patent violations and lawsuits regarding this stuff. Also a lot of formulas for fireworks use adding additional components such as Iron Oxide in a 12-8-1 mix, but find no example of that being used in a gun.

Lastly, the KNO3 is the largest component of Black, Golden or Crimson powder, and thats Hygroscopic, so you are dealing with that anyway.

The CIA method is a wet process so it's pretty safe - much more so than dry grinding if the maker doesn't take the usual necessary precautions against a premature BOOM! I quit using the CIA recipe because I believed I was losing some amount of nitrate in the wastewater. - but the finished product always fired and was energetic (although I never tested it over a chronograph).

It's interesting there isn't much info about use of "gold powder" in firearms - one could imagine all sorts of speculative reasons why it's not more widely used by shooters, but the truth is probably much simpler.

[Nobade]

There is lots written about American Pioneer Powder on the cowboy action forums. People love it for that use, where top speeds aren't required but high volume clean shooting with smoke is.

[2TM101]

There is lots written about American Pioneer Powder on the cowboy action forums. People love it for that use, where top speeds aren't required but high volume clean shooting with smoke is.

I'm actually getting ready to start doing that. And yes, a lot of talk about using it - not making it. In my group almost nobody casts and I'm the only one who makes powder. My motivation is simply to be able to make a powder I can use with a bullet lube that is mostly Slack Wax.

Ordered the AA off of Amazon, when it arrives I'll do this.

[2TM101]

The CIA method is a wet process so it's pretty safe - much more so than dry grinding if the maker doesn't take the usual necessary precautions against a premature BOOM! I quit using the CIA recipe because I believed I was losing some amount of nitrate in the wastewater.

Honestly the main thing that made me dismiss trying this method was how incredibly messy it seemed to be.

And the reason "Golden Powder" is not more popular could simply be cost. Both Sulfur and Charcoal cost about $5 a pound and you can make the charcoal yousef as well. Then its 25% of the mix as opposed to 40% of something costing twice as much. That being said, a pound of the stuff still only has about $8 of ingredients in it.

Or it could be that people just don't know it exists. If you google "Golden Powder" you get no refrences to this stuff. Most of what you see is in regarding to something you get playing a video game, and if you filter that out, its all about a food spice.

[HWooldridge]

Honestly the main thing that made me dismiss trying this method was how incredibly messy it seemed to be.

It is messy, no argument there.

[2TM101]

Pour the dough into plastic wrap to prevent it from sticking, as it cools it will become hard, just put it through a coffee grinder and use it!.

This is the one remaining question I have - what consistency does it have when you are done? Is it liquid or as you put it "dough"?

In the former case I would use the same cupcake mold I do my lead ingots in, in the latter I would use a silicone baking pan and just spread it into one thin sheet.

[HWooldridge]

I did some more reading and the gold powder users seem to fall into two camps - it’s either love or hate with no middle ground. However, if you sift through the noise, it seems to be harder to light in a flintlock so people use duplex loads with BP as a kicker (and in the pan). It works better in percussion guns and really well in cap and ball revolvers, primarily due to less residue. It has a tendency to clump but those clods can be broken up pretty easily.

I’m looking forward to seeing how the experiments turn out. Best of luck to everyone.

Several posts also claim the substitutes are more corrosive than straight BP but some of that may be due to cleaning practices, or lack thereof.

[Thundermaker]

I did some more reading and the gold powder users seem to fall into two camps - it’s either love or hate with no middle ground. However, if you sift through the noise, it seems to be harder to light in a flintlock so people use duplex loads with BP as a kicker (and in the pan). It works better in percussion guns and really well in cap and ball revolvers, primarily due to less residue. It has a tendency to clump but those clods can be broken up pretty easily.

I’m looking forward to seeing how the experiments turn out. Best of luck to everyone.

Several posts also claim the substitutes are more corrosive than straight BP but some of that may be due to cleaning practices, or lack thereof.

I can tell you for a fact that pyrodex is more corrosive. T7 wasn't as bad when I used it. Now that I'm into flintlock, I don't bother with subs anymore.

[Nobade]

An interesting read on golden powder.
https://pyrodata.com/PyroGuide/index...den_Powder.htm

[Sandro_ventania]

This is the one remaining question I have - what consistency does it have when you are done? Is it liquid or as you put it "dough"?

In the former case I would use the same cupcake mold I do my lead ingots in, in the latter I would use a silicone baking pan and just spread it into one thin sheet.

It turns yellow and looks like melted cheese. When it cools, it becomes hard as a rock. I recommend putting it in a silicone mold, leaving it very thin to make it easier to break before grinding. Sorry for not being able to speak English and having to use Google Translate.

[Sandro_ventania]

golden powder (1 year storage) and Black powder.

[Sandro_ventania]

Honestly the main thing that made me dismiss trying this method was how incredibly messy it seemed to be.

And the reason "Golden Powder" is not more popular could simply be cost. Both Sulfur and Charcoal cost about $5 a pound and you can make the charcoal yousef as well. Then its 25% of the mix as opposed to 40% of something costing twice as much. That being said, a pound of the stuff still only has about $8 of ingredients in it.

Or it could be that people just don't know it exists. If you google "Golden Powder" you get no refrences to this stuff. Most of what you see is in regarding to something you get playing a video game, and if you filter that out, its all about a food spice.

It is commercially exploited, so they try to keep the recipe secret. Pyrodex is basically nitrate and sugar... does anyone see recipes out there?

[HWooldridge]

An interesting read on golden powder.
https://pyrodata.com/PyroGuide/index...den_Powder.htm

Nobade, that's very interesting - thanks for the link.

I got to thinking last night that a person could also introduce a small percentage of BP and mix thoroughly if that provided any benefits to assisting ignition. Perhaps 10% of the equivalent powder size, i.e., only combine 3F size with 3F.

[Sandro_ventania]

What lowers the bp's ignition temperature is sulfur. Maybe adding some % sulfur to the gp will do the same thing.

[HamGunner]

Well, I caught a decent day last week and charred up three rolls of (Great Value Ultra Strong) TP on my turkey/fish fryer outside. This TP says that it compares to (Charmin Ultra Strong), which I suspect it likely was made by Charmin for Wal-Mart.

Charred it no more than an indicated 600 degrees inside my good sized pressure pan that my wife donated to me for my charring. It barely would hold three rolls though. It has a baffle in the bottom that keeps whatever I am charring from making direct contact with the bottom of the pan and I also made a round meshed weld wire shield to keep everything from making contact with the sides of the pan. My thermometer's stem fits down into the top of the pressure pan through the pressure release stem of the pan.

The char left the TP a dark brown to black color by the time it looked like it had charred all the way through and the smoke had started slowing down. I had to make a quick peek to check it, because as soon as I cracked the lid, it woofed into flame. It really wanted to burn much more readily than any of my wood charcoal at that point in the charring process.

I let it cool inside the pressure pan then dumped it into my ball mill. I milled the TP for close to an hour and it came out air float size. I weighed out enough to make 1 1/2 lbs. of BP and had just a bit left over, so one roll of this Great Value TP should make at least 1/2 lb. of BP. Boy this is so much easier, faster, and cleaner than debarking, cutting up and grinding up charred wood, so I hope it works out.

I milled up 1 1/2 lb. of BP meal yesterday for nearly 9 hours and it looked plenty done. Absolutely no clumping at all. Will compress into pucks this evening. Likely be awhile before I get to chronograph any of this for comparison as our weather is headed South for a while. We got a skiff of snow today and more to follow in a few days.

One thing to note was that I had a sealed container (at least I thought it was sealed) of already ground up Potassium Nitrate. It had clumped up, indicating it had moisture, so I busted it up and weighed out 10,000 gr. or a bit over the 7,850 or so gr. that I would need for the 1 1/2 lbs. of BP meal and then I weighed it again after I toasted it for 45 minutes in the slightly cracked open kitchen oven set on low heat. It only weighed 9,500 gr., so the oven drove off right at 500 gr. of moisture. If my math is correct that should be 5% moisture soaked up in a supposedly sealed container. I have been drying my chemicals prior to weighing for milling, but now I know it is always good to dry out your Potassium Nitrate prior to weighing.

Will report back my chrono findings once the weather gets decent. I will compare my older can of Goex, my Sassafras, which I consider my best home made so far, and this Great Value TP. I do not have any experience with Swiss as I have never had a can, so I guess I will just compare to the Goex as the norm.

Edit: I just watched the guy's video on U-tube about his TP powder experiments and he compared his Cottonelle with his more recent Northern TP batch and it looks like the Northern is just as fast, but a good bit dirtier than the Cottonelle. He thought it was about as dirty as Goex, so not bad, but he thinks the Cottonelle is getting very close to the results of Swiss.

One thing I did catch on this last video, he described how he charcoals his woods and TP. He just seals it inside a paint can that has a tiny hole in the lid and then tosses it into the coals of his fireplace over night. Certainly no controlled temp for the charring.

[DoubleBuck]

HamGunner;
Glad to see you taking the plunge! I observed some clumping taking place in my Nitrate, this last batch, as well. Luckily, I had the wood stove going and just set a cake pan with newspaper in it, on top and warmed it up to around 200°F, for an hour or so. I didn't observe how much weight it actually lost, but only dried it and then weighed it. I've about decided that drying everything first is easier than wondering where the mistake was.
I caught what you're talking about the guy on Youtube not taking pains with his cooking temps. And, it still made his best!
I'll be watching with interest in what results you find, from the tests you do. I hope your results are great!

[Sandro_ventania]

I discovered that pressing the bp is not that difficult, it easily becomes a hard disk. It is more difficult to grind to the desired size. I'm having 15% 2F, 40% 3F, 40% 4F and 5% powder. goal is 3F... so I'm having too much 4F.

[HamGunner]

I discovered that pressing the bp is not that difficult, it easily becomes a hard disk. It is more difficult to grind to the desired size. I'm having 15% 2F, 40% 3F, 40% 4F and 5% powder. goal is 3F... so I'm having too much 4F.

I reduced my fines by not getting in a hurry to decrease the size of my grind and by screening after each grind session. I start out with a fairly large grind setting and screen. I then regrind what did not pass my desired screens at that same coarse grind setting and screen again. I normally grind and screen at least three times before I reduce my grinder setting. This has me recovering less fines and more of the 3F, which is what I am after as well.

[Graysmoke]

I watched the utube guy making his tp powder and him checking his density. No matter how I press when I’m done grinding and throw a 50 gr measure it is never weighs 50gr. always 46-47 gr. My 80gr. is 76 gr. I’d like to know what I am doing wrong?
Graysmoke