Rock Island M206--Off center primer strikes, some failures to fire

[John in WI]

Some time ago, I got a great price on a RIA snubby .38. I put a bunch of commercial ammo through it and it seemed to work fine. But after firing a bunch of recently reloaded rounds, I've had a couple of failure. About 1 round per 2 cyclinders is a dud.
I looked closely, and the indentation on the primer is just a hair off center. It appears to be leaving a nice dent, even in the reloads.

I'm wondering about a few things. I've read that RIA are sometimes prone to weak hammer strikes. Is there a way to add some washers under the main spring, to give the spring a little compression, and make the hammer hit a little harder?

Is it ok for the pin to strike just a touch off center? If not, what can be done to remedy the situation? I would say stick with commercial ammo. Except I bought this thing specifically because I already had .38 reloading gear but no revovler to fire it out of.

Thanks for any ideas. I should have saved up and got something of higher quality. But overall, I like it. It's simple and was low cost.

[txbirdman]

I’ve got a S&W 27-2 that strikes the primer off center. Never had a problem getting it to fire though. However, it kind of bothered me so I took it to a S&W service center. The gunsmith there said it had to have been a forging issue. He offered to send it back to S&W for me but since it’s not been a problem I declined.

[John in WI]

Hmm, it's dumb of me, but I never thought of that. I heard RIA had good customer service. After some reading and Youtubing, it seems like failure to fire, light primer strikes, and off center primer strikes are fairly common. I should reach out to them.
I've never sent a firearm back for service. What is the procedure for doing that? It has to be a dealer transfer situation?

[BLAHUT]

I would look at your primers ?? Might be the light hammer spring ? Check Brownell's and see if they have a heavier spring ?
I think it is the primers, went through this a while back, different primers no problem ?

[rintinglen]

Let me understand--ALL of the factory loads went bang: only some of the reloads didn't. I would look long and hard at my priming system, then my primers, before sending my gun off to Nevada. I ran into a similar problem with my Dillon Square deal B. I was not leaning hard enough on the Arm to fully seat the primers, so the striker or firing pin had to finish the job, reducing the impact energy to the point where some did not fire. A small misalignment is not likely to cause a dud. It may damage the forcing cone on the barrel if enough rounds are fired, but that's not the issue.

[poppy42]

Let me understand--ALL of the factory loads went bang: only some of the reloads didn't. I would look long and hard at my priming system, then my primers, before sending my gun off to Nevada. I ran into a similar problem with my Dillon Square deal B. I was not leaning hard enough on the Arm to fully seat the primers, so the striker or firing pin had to finish the job, reducing the impact energy to the point where some did not fire. A small misalignment is not likely to cause a dud. It may damage the forcing cone on the barrel if enough rounds are fired, but that's not the issue.

How would a slightly off-center primer strike have any effect on the forcing cone?

[rintinglen]

It depends on the cause of the off-center strike.

If the cylinder is misaligned, the bullet may enter the forcing cone sufficiently off center to exert an asymmetrical force distorting or damaging the forcing cone due to repeated impacts. If the firing pin itself is off center, that would not be the case. It is my experience that hand and bolt problems, or bent cranes, more commonly result in cylinder misalignment than off center firing pin installations.

[FergusonTO35]

If factory ammo is 100% then I would strongly suspect something is up with your reloads. What brand primers are you using and how old are they? Remington primers from about 2008 to 2021 or so are HORRID. Some of them were so hard even my rifles wouldn't set them off. Some runs of CCI from that time are bad too. My advice, buy some recent manufacture primers if you can and try them again. Also, consider the Lyman primer pocket reamer and uniformer tools. They are cheap and you would be surprised how out of whack many primer pockets are.

If all else fails, contact Armscor. Their customer service is really good. Even if they don't find anything wrong with it they will probably give it a tune up with new springs and small parts.

[poppy42]

I had a whole brick of cci spp that had about an 85% failure rate. In other words 85% of the time they failed to go bang. In four different firearms! With three different calibers! 9x19, 9x18,38 special! I suspected that they were missed labeled and we’re actually small rifle primers possibly even the small rifle primers designed for military use! If you looked at the primer strikes there was barely a mark on the primers! Unfortunately I got no joy from CCI! They are supposed senior tech told me it had to be my firearm because they never had any issues with any of their primers ever! I have a whole thread posted about it if you want to do a search.

[poppy42]

It depends on the cause of the off-center strike.

If the cylinder is misaligned, the bullet may enter the forcing cone sufficiently off center to exert an asymmetrical force distorting or damaging the forcing cone due to repeated impacts. If the firing pin itself is off center, that would not be the case. It is my experience that hand and bolt problems, or bent cranes, more commonly result in cylinder misalignment than off center firing pin installations.

Ok that makes some sense.

[TD1886]

I know we all are professional reloaders. With that said MAKE SURE THE PRIMERS ARE FULLY SEATED. If you have an issue then, look else where to the problem. A little off center primer strikers are not a problem. When they are near the edge then I would be concerned.

[FergusonTO35]

I had a whole brick of cci spp that had about an 85% failure rate. In other words 85% of the time they failed to go bang. In four different firearms! With three different calibers! 9x19, 9x18,38 special! I suspected that they were missed labeled and we’re actually small rifle primers possibly even the small rifle primers designed for military use! If you looked at the primer strikes there was barely a mark on the primers! Unfortunately I got no joy from CCI! They are supposed senior tech told me it had to be my firearm because they never had any issues with any of their primers ever! I have a whole thread posted about it if you want to do a search.

I think that during the various election and covid related panics over the years, manufacturers have slipped in small rifle primers just to get product out the door. They reserved the good primers for loaded ammo because that's what most people buy and that's where the profit is.

[TD1886]

I think that during the various election and covid related panics over the years, manufacturers have slipped in small rifle primers just to get product out the door. They reserved the good primers for loaded ammo because that's what most people buy and that's where the profit is.

I don't because they make the primers for EVERYONE military, law enforcement, and down. In addition if you've ever seen the manufacture of primers it is serious business because the compound is a high explosive. They take primer manufacturing very serious. So to the contrary I don't think the outside influences going on today in our country is causing that and the slow down is because they aren't taking risking trying to speed primer manufacturing up.

[slughammer]

Off-center is very typical. Hitting right in the middle would be the exception.

Take 50 of your loaded rounds and put them in an empty ammo box. Run your fingertip over the primers and feel for any high ones. Then, look at all the primers with a magnifier. They should be flush or slightly below flush. Anything not seated fully will use the force of the hammer strike to seat the primer before it uses any force to set the primer off.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

[gwpercle]

I know we all are professional reloaders. With that said MAKE SURE THE PRIMERS ARE FULLY SEATED. If you have an issue then, look else where to the problem. A little off center primer strikers are not a problem. When they are near the edge then I would be concerned.

What TD1886 said X 10 !
If those primers are not fully seated , all the way to the bottom of the pocket ...
you will be getting misfires ... No if's , and's or but's ... and it's not the gun ...it's the primer seating !
Gary

[FergusonTO35]

I don't because they make the primers for EVERYONE military, law enforcement, and down. In addition if you've ever seen the manufacture of primers it is serious business because the compound is a high explosive. They take primer manufacturing very serious. So to the contrary I don't think the outside influences going on today in our country is causing that and the slow down is because they aren't taking risking trying to speed primer manufacturing up.

I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything, just firsthand experience. In the late 2000's Remington SPP quality went down the toilet, and CCI did too although not quite as bad. I agree that the manufacturers put a lot of care into the production of primers, but it doesn't mean they can't or won't cut corners when they need to. With demand red hot, I don't think any of them would be above using a thicker foil for the primer cups or slipping in SR primers to get product out the door. They aren't going to do that with loaded ammo because that's where the revenue and reputation is, especially with LE and military. Just my thoughts, nothing more.

[lar45]

Post a couple of pictures of your loaded ammo case heads. Then a picture of the ones that didn't go bang.
If you drop the hammer on them a second time, will they fire then?

[FergusonTO35]

Yesterday I had one new production Remington primer that would not fire no matter how many times I tried. I have noticed that the current crop of R-P primers is alot better than in the past but they still seem harder than others. I guess I'll just reserve them for practice. *sigh*