I recently acquired a Crosman F4 in .177. Will it help any to lube the pellets with a coat of BLL? It shoots good, for me at least, so any advice, good or bad, will be welcome!
Just putting in the trigger time, ya know!
Thanks in advance.
I recently acquired a Crosman F4 in .177. Will it help any to lube the pellets with a coat of BLL? It shoots good, for me at least, so any advice, good or bad, will be welcome!
Just putting in the trigger time, ya know!
Thanks in advance.
I firmly believe that you should only get treated by how you act, not by who or what you are!!
I tried, did not work, you want accuracy, find the pellet your gun likes, just takes time, then when you find the one, buy all of that lot number you can or can afford...
BLL is a little thick to be using on pellets. I've experimented with different lubes from FP-10, Ballistol, Break Free and even made some Whiscombe Honey (half and half, Hoppes and STP). certain brands of pellets have shown a slight improvement. Whether it is from the lube or the actual washing of the pellets I can't say. Usually, PCP guns will see an improvement because springers send a fine mist of lube whenever you shoot them. The being said I have shot thousands of bare pellets and NEVER seen any indication of leading.
If you are going to make a hole in something. MAKE IT A BIG ONE!
I did some testing with Ballistol in a PCP gun and adding lube seemed to help.
Here is the data. All data is the average of 5 five shot groups at 50 yards using Crosman 14.3 HP's in a . 22 Daystate Huntsman. Lube is Ballistol and number of drops in a tin of 500.
No lube .547"
20 drops
Test 1 .453"
Test 2 .519"
Test 3 .500"
Average of 15 groups .491"
30 drops
Test 1 .484"
Test 2 .630"
Test 3 .485"
Average of 15 groups .533"
These pellets were not washed first. Washing is recommended but I am lazy and wanted something quick and dirty. Also, I did not weight sort or do intensive inspection. Shot out the tin after lubing.
Adding 20 drops of Ballistol to the cheapest pellets I can buy and averaging under 1/2" for 15 groups is "good enough" for this hillbilly.
You have a Nitro piston gun so not sure how it will react with lube. I suggest doing a bunch of testing.
I love to shoot so spending time at a bench testing stuff is not onerous for me. YMMV.
Last edited by dverna; 01-22-2023 at 11:33 AM.
Don Verna
I may try Breakfree CLP on the 177 rifle to reduce leading. But not sure i have a problem? Lubing the chamber does change accuracy & point of impact as some lube makes its way into the barrel.
Interesting read- https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008...icate-pellets/
Perhaps a tooo-long reply... sorry. A colleague (Larry) decided he wished to play tennis, so he bought a Big-box el cheapo racket. After a few trips to courts he acknowledged how awful a tennis player he was -- so he went back to store and purchased their best racket. A few weeks later, noting but marginal improvement, he went to a sporting goods outfit and purchased a semi-pro racket. (TRUE story!)
Germane to your query is when I am tempted (almost obsessed-to ) "improve" -- I suck it up and realize some guys and guyettes have the inherited genes, eyesight, coordination, et cetera to be outstanding performers; I, am a bit lacking .
You wrote, "It shoots good" and I am ever so happy for you.
Somehow, you made me recall Larry...
Not "advice" -- but, Larry truly did this with everything -- for him to improve he either BOUGHT better equipment or any/every gadget imaginable to enhance his performance...
It was suggested that the added practice at whatever is what may have increased marginal performance increase -- not necessarily the additive.
Just a thought or two on "performance enhancers."
BEST!
geo
P.S.: They sell an actual product to better airgun pellet performance...photo here. (Airguns of Arizona carries it.)
Larry (oops -- change that to George )
Last edited by georgerkahn; 01-22-2023 at 10:03 AM.
Growing up I dusted my pellets with graphite. My crosman 2400 didn't mind at all, it was a tackdriver. Nowadays I put a drop of Pellgun Oil down the barrel occasionally. For my plinking-around BB pistols, it helps them a lot to the point of being a requirement at the beginning of every shooting session.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.― H.L. Mencken
Not a pellet gun guy, but have to ask, anyone try powder coating pellets??
just askin'
Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA...topic=181093.0
This thread ran for 10 months and died. Lots of banter. Guys getting excited about gaining a bit of velocity and pretty pellets, but the really important criteria, accuracy, did not improve.
Smoke was on the thread so you may want to reach out to him and get an update. But in the thread above Smoke was more into the larger pellets/slugs.
There were a couple of other shorter threads and the results were, IMO, boring. 1" groups at 30 yards is pathetic.
I have spent some time looking at how to improve accuracy as that is what matters to me. I want "cheap" trigger time without having to "air up" constantly, so I gravited to .22 cal air rifles. What I learned is casting .22 pellets does nothing but waste your time. PC'ing will not help. In all the stuff I have read, I have never seen either cast pellets or PC'ed pellets shoot any better than 14.3 gr Crosman Premiers at 50 yards from my air rifles. (Daystate Huntsman and DAR)
This year I will be testing at 100 yards just for ****s and giggles.
Don Verna
After some trigger time today, I think I’ll just leave well enough alone for now! Haha. Getting used to the trigger, correcting some found problems, coming around nicely! $7.50 for 400 shots of pellets will do for me, right now! Bud Light cans in trouble now, if today was any indication! Thank you everyone for your comments! This is a new discipline for me.
I firmly believe that you should only get treated by how you act, not by who or what you are!!
Last edited by Kenstone; 01-22-2023 at 11:58 PM.
Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.
Handgun calibers are much different. There is a lot more "wiggle room" wrt projectile size so being a couple of .001" off is not as critical.
Also, handguns calibers cannot match the accuracy potential of an air rifle. I can get well under 1" groups at 50 yards consistently and at times in the 1/2" range (wind being the worst thing to deal with).
Even with the best target CF handguns that level of accuracy is not going to happen. Now, I know someone will post a nice 3/4" group out of there K-38 or Clark and say, "SEE!!!". But wallet groups don't count. Show me 15 consecutive groups that average under an 1" and I get impressed. (BTW, my air rifle 5 shot wallet group is .2" at 50 yards)
Hopefully, Smoke will chime in and share his experience as I expect he has done the most work on PC-ing air gun projectiles.
Don Verna
you said:
""There is a lot more "wiggle room" wrt projectile size so being a couple of .001" off is not as critical.""
The very reason I re-size coated boolits, so why not RE-SIZE coated pellets?
That is a rhetorical question and needs no answer here.
So, there's no need to respond, you are wasting your wisdom on me.
Sorry for wandering into the Air Gun forum...
.
Last edited by Kenstone; 01-31-2023 at 04:13 PM.
Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.
On a spring gun any lubricant inside the pellet skirt will burn off. You might get a bit of a velocity gain but unless you can make the amount of lubricant very consistent, you will increase the velocity spread.
Silicone shock oil for RC cars won't diesel. Put a few drops onto the lid of a pellet tin, add pellets, then roll around to distribute the oil. Rolling on an impregnated cloth is another option.
I use mobile1 synthetic motor oil. I'm looking for pellets about as wet as brass going into a sizing die.
I have a couple pcps that run over 900 fps. leading was starting before adding lube, now it is not there.
To lazy to chase arrows.
Clodhopper
Thanks for posting this.
Just the type of info I questioned about, only powder coat.
As far as lubing brass, I posted this method in a different thread, as a way to apply a very thin/minute amount of lube that should work well on Pellets too:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5516651
Was there any different in villosity between the lubed/non-lubed Pellets??
Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.
Ok, I never heard of villosity, so checking the definition, yes it did change.
And lacking desire to have numerical answer, refer you back to about as wet brass going into a sizing die.
Thanks for teaching me a new word.
If you meant velocity, I did not check. There are so many variables with lube quantity on the pellet, and in the barrel, atmospheric pressure, humidity. My interest is shooting, obsessing over a few feet per second detracts from that.
To lazy to chase arrows.
Clodhopper
If you’re really into pellet gun accuracy improvement, finding out if lubing the pellet makes a significant difference isn’t the first, second, or even the third thing to look at. Accuracy in these guns is much like it is in rimfire rifles….THE specific pellet being used is the NUMBER ONE variable to fix first. There are an awful lot of different pellets available to choose from. Start off by purchasing a pellet variety pack of different pellets (these are sold with 25 different pellets with 25 each pellet) to test in your gun. These are selected based on what are the most consistent/best accuracy pellets being used in match competition. You’ll soon find what your gun likes the best. Next, all your testing should be done on absolutely windless conditions to get any meaningful results. You’ll need a chronograph to find out what your gun is doing with each of these pellets. The better ones will be very close shot-shot. When you find out which pellet is the best, you can start lubing them and measure the results. Don Verna’s test results are the result of running tests based on controlled conditions and I’d accept them as factual. I went down this road for many years with rimfire rifles and handguns and found out what the biggest variables were and it made a difference between winning or losing at a match. I started down this road with my Daystate .22 airgun and quit after finding out which pellet shot the best UNLUBED. I did try lubing and not lubing and if I shot in windless conditions my groups without lube were around .5” at 50 yards and I decided “that’s good enough for me”. If I were shooting competition I’d still be trying out the finer points for improvement. I guess I just got lazy, don’t shoot competition, and starlings, squirrels, and other pests don’t seem to care. I guess I left most of the work to Daystate to get the accuracy I was looking for.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |